Il numero della Bestia non è 666 ma 616

[Ashmael]

http://www.cittadellascienza.it/news...&ID_LANCI=3325

Aggiornate i vostri cellulari

[Federale]

13:18
hic sapientia est qui habet intellectum conputet numerum bestiae numerus enim hominis est et numerus eius est sescenti sexaginta sex.

Apocalisse di Giovanni
In greco
18 Ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.

A scanso di equivoci

[Ashmael]

Comunque parlano di imperatori romani. nessun Anticristo nascerà il 6 giugno del 2006

[Diaspro]

Il numero che la tradizione cristiana avvicina a Satana, alla bestia e all'anticristo non è più il 666 ma il 616. Almeno è questa la conclusione dei ricercatori dell'Università di Oxford che da qualche mese stanno riesaminando i frammenti del papiro di Ossirinco con una nuova tecnica che consente di ricostruire testi andati perduti. Il papiro di Ossirinco (circa 400 mila frammenti conservati in una biblioteca di Oxford) fu scoperto oltre un secolo fa in una antica discarica nei pressi di Ossirinco, nell'Egitto centrale, ma a parte qualche piccola parte, è stato considerato fino a oggi intraducibile a causa dei danni provocati dal tempo e dal decadimento del papiro.
Nonostante tutto e grazie alla tecnologia agli infrarossi, i ricercatori sono riusciti a leggere un frammento dell'Apocalisse di San Giovanni che risale al terzo secolo dopo Cristo. Si tratta del reperto più antico mai giunto fino a noi di questo libro del Nuovo Testamento.
In questo frammento, secondo David Parker, un professore di paleografia, si legge che il numero con cui ci si riferisce all'anticristo non è 666 ma il meno suggestivo 616. Parker ritiene che si tratti di un esempio di gematria (la coincidenza tra numeri e lettere), dove i numeri sono basati sui valori numerici delle lettere che compongono i nomi delle persone. I primi cristiani usavano spesso questo stratagemma per riferirsi all'identità di persone che li stavano perseguitando. Parker pensa che il numero riguardi l'imperatore Caligola, non certo tenero contro i primi cristiani.

Independent (Città della Scienza)

------------------------------

Report: 616, Not 666 The Real Number of the Beast


First, here's an excerpt of the report of the discovery:

A newly discovered fragment of the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament indicates that, as far as the Antichrist goes, theologians, scholars, heavy metal groups, and television evangelists have got the wrong number. Instead of 666, it's actually the far less ominous 616.
The new fragment from the Book of Revelation, written in ancient Greek and dating from the late third century, is part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts discovered in historic dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt. Now a team of expert classicists, using new photographic techniques, are finally deciphering the original writing.
Professor David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography at the University of Birmingham, thinks that 616, although less memorable than 666, is the original. He said: "This is an example of gematria, where numbers are based on the numerical values of letters in people's names. Early Christians would use numbers to hide the identity of people who they were attacking: 616 refers to the Emperor Caligula."
The Book of Revelation is traditionally considered to be written by John, a disciple of Jesus; it identifies 666 as the mark of the Antichrist. In America, the fundamentalist Christian right often use the number in sermons about the coming Apocalypse. They and satanists responded coolly to the new "Revelation". Peter Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan, based in New York, said: "By using 666 we're using something that the Christians fear. Mind you, if they do switch to 616 being the number of the beast then we'll start using that."

Don't Write 616 over 666 In Your Bible Just Yet!


So, if you did not know better, you might already be heading to your Bible with a red marker to cross out the 666 and write in 616. After all, we have an textual critic of the New Testament telling us 666 is wrong. But not so fast!
I have a few reasons to keep this one on the shelf, and even to doubt it. Note that none of these are proofs that 616 is wrong. They are just my thinking on why I believe 666 is correct still at this point. Reasons To Still Prefer 666 over 616

1. The article cites just one man's conclusion. But I'm the type of person who likes to check things out for himself, rather than trust someone else to do my thinking. I want to see the data and reasoning he used to conclude 616 is correct, even though it's in the minority of manuscripts. For example, when I decided that Y'hovah was probably the correct transliteration for God's name in the Old Testament, I did not do so because Nehemia Gordon said so. I did so after looking through the Old Testament manuscripts myself, looking at the vowel points and carefully reasoning out what they likely were telling us were the original vowels. Until I see the proof myself for 616, I'm not likely to switch from 666 based on one man's opinion.

2. One thing that would settle this question would be if a man appeared on the scene fulfilling everything else for the "First Beast from the Sea" in Revelation 13 and other prophecies related to what is (erroneously) called "the Antichrist". If we "calculated" the "number of his name" as instructed and it came to either 616 or 666 we would have our answer. There is such a man. Prince Charles of Wales' heraldic achievement (coat-of-arms) literally consists of the very beasts described in Rev 13 and Dan 7, he is a Prince (Dan 9:27) and he is from the old Roman Empire that destroyed the Temple (Dan 9:27). So what does his name add up to? Rather than 616, his name adds up to 666 using the ancient gematria system. And not only does this work in the English, but also in the official Hebrew transliteration (Nasich Charles Mem Wales). What are the odds anyone would have a name that calculates to the same number in two languages (without tampering with the transliteration like is done to Javier Solana's name to make it equal 666 in Hebrew)?
3. The Book of Revelation introduces very little that is new and tends to mostly expand on concepts or symbols that have already been used elsewhere in the Bible. You must use the rest of the Bible to decipher much of Revelation. It is noteworthy therefore that 616 appears nowhere else in the Bible while 666 appears four times. It very interestingly appears in this verse related to another exalted and adored king, one whom no doubt the coming Antichrist will want to emulate in many ways.

1 Kings 10:14 -- The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,

(Thanks to my dear brother Robert for pointing this verse out). If anyone gets a good textual criticism report on 616 vs 666 please let me know as I'd like to get to see why someone would conclude 616 is the original.
4. Irenaeus in the second century, a century before the manuscript Parker relies on, already knew of the 616 variation and discounted it as an error:

Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end), - I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.] - Adv. haer. 5.30

In this rather obscurely expressed passage, Irenaeus was proposing (even in the second century - a century BEFORE this oldest surviving copy!) that old, Greek copies of Revelation contained an error of copying in which the Greek letter xi with gematraic value 60 was wrongly copied into the Greek letter iota with number value 10.
Meanwhile, I hope this helps you keep this one on the shelf as well.
See also Is Pope Benedict / Ratzinger The False Prophet? See also: Why The Beast/Antichrist And The False Prophet Enter The Lake of Fire First

----------------------------

Aleister Crowley identifica al 666 non il senso del numero della bestia, ossia dell'anticristo, ma il senso dell'iniziazione. Caino sarebbe stato segnato da un "segno" sulla fronte, da Dio in persona, dopo aver ammesso il suo peccato (aver ucciso Abele), Dio lo ha segnato perchè Caino temeva di poter essere ucciso da qualcuno a causa della sua colpa. Quel segno cosa è se non il 666? 666 come segno di iniziazione, iniziazione alla conoscenza. Solo conoscendo ci si ribella a Dio!

[Diaspro]

Il numero che la tradizione cristiana avvicina a Satana, alla bestia e all'anticristo non è più il 666 ma il 616. Almeno è questa la conclusione dei ricercatori dell'Università di Oxford che da qualche mese stanno riesaminando i frammenti del papiro di Ossirinco con una nuova tecnica che consente di ricostruire testi andati perduti. Il papiro di Ossirinco (circa 400 mila frammenti conservati in una biblioteca di Oxford) fu scoperto oltre un secolo fa in una antica discarica nei pressi di Ossirinco, nell'Egitto centrale, ma a parte qualche piccola parte, è stato considerato fino a oggi intraducibile a causa dei danni provocati dal tempo e dal decadimento del papiro.
Nonostante tutto e grazie alla tecnologia agli infrarossi, i ricercatori sono riusciti a leggere un frammento dell'Apocalisse di San Giovanni che risale al terzo secolo dopo Cristo. Si tratta del reperto più antico mai giunto fino a noi di questo libro del Nuovo Testamento.
In questo frammento, secondo David Parker, un professore di paleografia, si legge che il numero con cui ci si riferisce all'anticristo non è 666 ma il meno suggestivo 616. Parker ritiene che si tratti di un esempio di gematria (la coincidenza tra numeri e lettere), dove i numeri sono basati sui valori numerici delle lettere che compongono i nomi delle persone. I primi cristiani usavano spesso questo stratagemma per riferirsi all'identità di persone che li stavano perseguitando. Parker pensa che il numero riguardi l'imperatore Caligola, non certo tenero contro i primi cristiani.

Independent (Città della Scienza)

------------------------------

Report: 616, Not 666 The Real Number of the Beast



First, here's an excerpt of the report of the discovery:

A newly discovered fragment of the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament indicates that, as far as the Antichrist goes, theologians, scholars, heavy metal groups, and television evangelists have got the wrong number. Instead of 666, it's actually the far less ominous 616.
The new fragment from the Book of Revelation, written in ancient Greek and dating from the late third century, is part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts discovered in historic dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt. Now a team of expert classicists, using new photographic techniques, are finally deciphering the original writing.
Professor David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography at the University of Birmingham, thinks that 616, although less memorable than 666, is the original. He said: "This is an example of gematria, where numbers are based on the numerical values of letters in people's names. Early Christians would use numbers to hide the identity of people who they were attacking: 616 refers to the Emperor Caligula."
The Book of Revelation is traditionally considered to be written by John, a disciple of Jesus; it identifies 666 as the mark of the Antichrist. In America, the fundamentalist Christian right often use the number in sermons about the coming Apocalypse. They and satanists responded coolly to the new "Revelation". Peter Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan, based in New York, said: "By using 666 we're using something that the Christians fear. Mind you, if they do switch to 616 being the number of the beast then we'll start using that."

Don't Write 616 over 666 In Your Bible Just Yet!


So, if you did not know better, you might already be heading to your Bible with a red marker to cross out the 666 and write in 616. After all, we have an textual critic of the New Testament telling us 666 is wrong. But not so fast!
I have a few reasons to keep this one on the shelf, and even to doubt it. Note that none of these are proofs that 616 is wrong. They are just my thinking on why I believe 666 is correct still at this point. Reasons To Still Prefer 666 over 616

1. The article cites just one man's conclusion. But I'm the type of person who likes to check things out for himself, rather than trust someone else to do my thinking. I want to see the data and reasoning he used to conclude 616 is correct, even though it's in the minority of manuscripts. For example, when I decided that Y'hovah was probably the correct transliteration for God's name in the Old Testament, I did not do so because Nehemia Gordon said so. I did so after looking through the Old Testament manuscripts myself, looking at the vowel points and carefully reasoning out what they likely were telling us were the original vowels. Until I see the proof myself for 616, I'm not likely to switch from 666 based on one man's opinion.

2. One thing that would settle this question would be if a man appeared on the scene fulfilling everything else for the "First Beast from the Sea" in Revelation 13 and other prophecies related to what is (erroneously) called "the Antichrist". If we "calculated" the "number of his name" as instructed and it came to either 616 or 666 we would have our answer. There is such a man. Prince Charles of Wales' heraldic achievement (coat-of-arms) literally consists of the very beasts described in Rev 13 and Dan 7, he is a Prince (Dan 9:27) and he is from the old Roman Empire that destroyed the Temple (Dan 9:27). So what does his name add up to? Rather than 616, his name adds up to 666 using the ancient gematria system. And not only does this work in the English, but also in the official Hebrew transliteration (Nasich Charles Mem Wales). What are the odds anyone would have a name that calculates to the same number in two languages (without tampering with the transliteration like is done to Javier Solana's name to make it equal 666 in Hebrew)?

3. The Book of Revelation introduces very little that is new and tends to mostly expand on concepts or symbols that have already been used elsewhere in the Bible. You must use the rest of the Bible to decipher much of Revelation. It is noteworthy therefore that 616 appears nowhere else in the Bible while 666 appears four times. It very interestingly appears in this verse related to another exalted and adored king, one whom no doubt the coming Antichrist will want to emulate in many ways.

1 Kings 10:14 -- The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,

(Thanks to my dear brother Robert for pointing this verse out). If anyone gets a good textual criticism report on 616 vs 666 please let me know as I'd like to get to see why someone would conclude 616 is the original.

4. Irenaeus in the second century, a century before the manuscript Parker relies on, already knew of the 616 variation and discounted it as an error:

Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end), - I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.] - Adv. haer. 5.30

In this rather obscurely expressed passage, Irenaeus was proposing (even in the second century - a century BEFORE this oldest surviving copy!) that old, Greek copies of Revelation contained an error of copying in which the Greek letter xi with gematraic value 60 was wrongly copied into the Greek letter iota with number value 10.
Meanwhile, I hope this helps you keep this one on the shelf as well.
See also Is Pope Benedict / Ratzinger The False Prophet? See also: Why The Beast/Antichrist And The False Prophet Enter The Lake of Fire First

----------------------------

Aleister Crowley identifica al 666 non il senso del numero della bestia, ossia dell'anticristo, ma il senso dell'iniziazione. Caino sarebbe stato segnato da un "segno" sulla fronte, da Dio in persona, dopo aver ammesso il suo peccato (aver ucciso Abele), Dio lo ha segnato perchè Caino temeva di poter essere ucciso da qualcuno a causa della sua colpa. Quel segno cosa è se non il 666? 666 come segno di iniziazione, iniziazione alla conoscenza. Solo conoscendo ci si ribella a Dio!

[Baltik]

la conoscenza è "unione" con gli dei, non ribellione !

il crowley è il solito peregrino da diaspora.

sasluti.

[sacher.tonino]

La conoscenza...l'inizio di tutti i dolori.
Il cielo è azzurro.

[Diaspro]

La conoscenza è unione con gli dèi in un concetto pagano!

Qui si parla di satana e del segno della Bestia, non di dèi!

SI parla di conoscenza nel percorso monoteista e di tradizione abramitica. Adamo ed Eva sono stati cacciati dall'Eden perchè colsero il frutto della conoscenza, quel frutto che Dio proibì loro di cogliere proprio per imepdire che l'uomo conoscesse Dio nel suo intimo, per evitare che l'uomo si confrontasse a Dio, sottraendosi alla sottomissione della coscienza...

[Silvia]

http://www.cittadellascienza.it/news...&ID_LANCI=3325

Aggiornate i vostri cellulari

Eh sì, corre voce che la Bestia abbia cambiato prefisso...

La questione è comunque antichissima e già affrontata da Ireneo (II secolo d. C.), che si scagliò contro coloro che "seguendo una lezione particolare, hanno svuotato di significato il numero di mezzo, togliendo a esso cinquanta unità, e hanno fissato una sola decina invece di sei" (Contro le eresie). Secondo Ireneo, il numero della Bestia era senza dubbio 666, essendo il 6 un numero sacro: 6 i giorni della creazione, 6 i millenni della durata totale del mondo.
Del resto, in greco i numeri erano indicati con lettere dell'alfabeto: bastava un semplice errore di trascrizione per avere 616 invece di 666.

E ora questo frammento antichissimo sembra riaprire la questione…

[francodisassoni]

La conoscenza...l'inizio di tutti i dolori.
Il cielo è azzurro.

non concordo, per me la calata dell'uomo nel materialismo e l'allontanamento da Dio, fanno parte del disegno divino.
Solo conoscendo il peccato, il dolore, la morte; l'uomo, consapevole e razionale trova in Dio l'ultima risposta alle sue domande