Jenin

[Re Travicello]

Ma come vi permettete di criticare questi poveri poveri israeliani, ora non hanno neanche più il diritto di ammazzare e torturare impunemente e di rubare la terra agli altri popoli? Loro sono la razza eletta e possono fare quello che vogliono (specialmente quando si hanno le spalle coperte dai soldi e dalle testate nucleari di zio bush).

[ScimmioneNudo]

Non ho postato per intero l'articolo della HRW. Credo che chiunque abbia parlato dell' HRW sia stato o in malafede o veramente cieco/tonto. Il documento che smentiva il massacro di Jenin e' datato 29 aprile. Sul sito della HRW ci sono decine di links e pagine tutte datate a maggio (quindi posteriori) che documentano il massacro.

http://www.hrwatch.org/spanish/fotos/2002/jenin2.html

In piu' vi e ' un documento di 52 pagine che analizza per filo e per segno quanto gli Israeliani facciano LETTERALMENTE schifo.

"The abuses we documented in Jenin are extremely serious, and in some cases appear to be war crimes. Criminal investigations are needed to ascertain individual responsibility for the most serious violations. Such investigations are first and foremost the duty of the Israeli government, but the international community needs to ensure that meaningful accountability occurs."

Peter Bouckaert
Senior Researcher

Among the twenty-two civilian deaths documented during this investigation were the following:

* Fifty-seven-year-old Kamal Zghair, a wheelchair-bound man who was shot and then run over by IDF tanks on April 10 as he was moving in his wheelchair equipped with a white flag down a major road in Jenin;

* Thirty-seven-year-old Jamal Fayid, a paralyzed man, who was crushed in the rubble of his home on April 7 after IDF soldiers refused to allow his family the time to remove him from their home before a bulldozer destroyed it;

* Fourteen-year-old Faris Zaiben, who was killed by fire from an IDF armored car as he went to buy groceries when the IDF-imposed curfew was finally lifted on April 11; and

* Fifty-two-year-old 'Afaf Disuqi, who was killed on April 5 by an explosive charge that IDF soldiers had placed at her front door as she went to open it for the soldiers;

In one case involving a wounded Palestinian militant, IDF soldiers for several hours prevented medical help from reaching him. The soldiers then killed the man, who had been left close to a hospital near the camp and was no longer armed or taking active part in the fighting.

Human Rights Watch also found evidence of indiscriminate and disproportionate use of force by the IDF. U.S.-supplied helicopters fired anti-tank missiles and other ordinance into the camp, in some cases making insufficient efforts to identify legitimate military targets and avoid hitting civilian houses. The helicopters struck many houses in Jenin refugee camp that were inhabited only by civilians, and where no Palestinian fighters were present. In one of many such cases, a tank shell and two helicopter-fired TOW anti-tank missiles hit the house of Kamal Tawalba, a father of fourteen children, on April 6. No fighters were present in the home. When Tawalba and his family tried to leave their burning home, IDF soldiers in the vicinity shot at them.

In another case, a sixty-year-old woman was killed when a helicopter fired a missile directly into her top-floor apartment although there were no armed Palestinians in the building or the immediate vicinity.

The IDF's campaign caused extensive and disproportionate destruction of the civilian infrastructure of the camp, particularly in the Hawashin district following an April 9 ambush of Israeli soldiers there. In contrast to other parts of the camp where armored bulldozers were used mainly to widen streets, in Hawashin they razed the entire district. Throughout the camp, at least 140 buildings were completely leveled, many of them multi-family dwellings, and more than 200 others were severely damaged, leaving an estimated 4,000 people, more than a quarter of the population, homeless. More than one hundred of those buildings were in Hawashin district.

The extensive, systematic, and deliberate leveling of the entire district was clearly disproportionate to any military objective that Israel aimed to achieve. Establishing whether this devastation so exceeded military necessity as to constitute wanton destruction-a war crime-should be one of the highest priorities for any future U.N. fact-finding team, said Bouckaert.

Human Rights Watch also documented cases in which Israeli troops used Palestinian civilians as human shields, a practice prohibited under international humanitarian law. In one case, IDF soldiers forced eight civilians to shield them by making them stand on a balcony while the soldiers fired at Palestinian gunmen. Kamal Tawalba and his fourteen-year-old son were among them. Tawalba described how the soldiers kept them for three hours in the line of fire, and used his and his son's shoulders to rest their rifles as they fired.

"Even accepting the Israeli charge that Palestinian groups who used the refugee camp as a base were responsible for attacking Israeli civilians," said Bouckaert, "this does not excuse the IDF violations documented in this report." Bouckaert added that Human Rights Watch found no evidence that Palestinian gunmen forced civilians to serve as human shields during the battles in the camp, and no indication that Palestinian gunmen had prevented Palestinian civilians from leaving the camp.

"As in our prior investigations of IDF operations, we also found numerous cases where the IDF coerced Palestinian civilians to take part in military operations," Bouckaert said. "Palestinian civilians were forced, sometimes at gunpoint, to accompany IDF troops during their searches of homes and to carry out some of the most dangerous tasks during these searches."

During most of "Operation Defensive Shield," the IDF blocked emergency medical access to Jenin camp. Soldiers repeatedly fired on Red Crescent ambulances, and in one case shot to death a uniformed nurse, twenty-seven-year-old Farwa Jammal, who had come to the assistance of a wounded man. In another case, fifty-eight-year-old Mariam Wishahi died in her home thirty-six hours after she was injured by shrapnel; IDF soldiers repeatedly prevented ambulances from reaching her home, located just a few hundred meters from Jenin's main hospital.

During the period the IDF had control of the camp, the Israeli authorities had responsibility under international humanitarian law for the welfare of the civilian population. Yet Israeli authorities denied humanitarian organizations access to the camp during their offensive, and continued to prevent humanitarian access to the refugee camp for days after military operations had ceased, despite great need.

Human Rights Watch has investigated and reported on violations of international humanitarian law by governments and armed groups in conflict situations around the globe, including most recently in Kosovo, Bosnia, Chechnya, eastern Congo, Indonesia, Afghanistan, and Colombia.

Human Rights Watch is preparing a separate report on those responsible for suicide bombings directed against Israeli civilians

HRW che vi piace tanto ha anche chiesto all'esercito Israeliano di aprire un' inchiesta, ma a tuttoggi niente di fatto.

Israele DEVE essere cacciata dalla Palestina. Altrimenti e' normale aspettarsi sempre attentati. Forse se abitassi li' e avessi subito soprusi di questo genere pure io farei l'uomo-bomba.

Ai posteri.

[yurj]

In Origine Postato da Re Travicello
Ma come vi permettete di criticare questi poveri poveri israeliani, ora non hanno neanche più il diritto di ammazzare e torturare impunemente e di rubare la terra agli altri popoli? Loro sono la razza eletta e possono fare quello che vogliono (specialmente quando si hanno le spalle coperte dai soldi e dalle testate nucleari di zio bush).

Evitiamo *estendo anche a SN* di insultare gli israeliani in toto. La realta' e' sempre complessa.

Ad esempio, il 67% degli israeliani ritiene sbaglieta tentare l'eliminazione fisica di hamas da parte del proprio governo, perche' danneggerebbe il processo di pace.

Inoltre finalmente qualcuno comincia a dare credito alla forza di interposizione internazionale, la tesi che il Movimento ha proposto piu' volte in questi anni.

[ScimmioneNudo]

In Origine Postato da yurj
Evitiamo *estendo anche a SN* di insultare gli israeliani in toto. La realta' e' sempre complessa.

Ad esempio, il 67% degli israeliani ritiene sbaglieta tentare l'eliminazione fisica di hamas da parte del proprio governo, perche' danneggerebbe il processo di pace.

Inoltre finalmente qualcuno comincia a dare credito alla forza di interposizione internazionale, la tesi che il Movimento ha proposto piu' volte in questi anni.

Veramente insulto i sostenitori del governo di Israele. Poi che vi siano degli Israeliani onesti e pacifici non lo metto in dubbio, i razzisti sono su altri siti.
Non vi e' alcun dubbio che la questione possa essere risolta solo da un Arbitro esterno, purchè pero' sia imparziale e accreditato. Ricordo ancora le 16 risoluzioni ONU violate da Israele...

[jesi1194 (POL)]

In Origine Postato da Pitone
....... Su Hobeika (vero autore della strage) non ho mai sentito strali........

Ci ha pensato qualcun altro circa un anno fa... o almeno così ci hanno fatto credere!

[ScimmioneNudo]

Noto con piacere che i vari PIEFFEBI TSABAR e altri hanno l'onestà intellettuale di un Emilio Fede. Ne prendo atto.

[Pitone]

In Origine Postato da jesi1194
Ci ha pensato qualcun altro circa un anno fa... o almeno così ci hanno fatto credere!

Si certo, ma il fatto che per anni sia stato ministro col pieno appoggio della Siria da la dimensione di quanto sia da sempre strumentale l'appoggio dei paesi arabi ai loro "fratelli palestinesi".........

[yurj]

O di quanto la sirai sappia fare la pace e altri no...

[Pitone]

In Origine Postato da yurj
O di quanto la sirai sappia fare la pace e altri no...

........E allora a che serve che tu posti gli articoli in cui (GIUSTAMENTE) i familiari delle vittime della strage di Sabra e Chatila chiedono giustizia, se tu ritieni sia un atto di pace l'aver fatto ministro il vero boia di quella tragedia?

[yurj]

E' per caso quello che doveva testimoniare in Belgio e qualcuno l'ha fatto saltare in aria?

Serve a NON dimenticare, a trovare un minimo di giustizia in questo mondo. Ti basta?

C'e' invce chi si nasconde dietro una foglia di fico per non assumersi le proprie responsabilita'.