Gli USA intanto pensano alla sesta generazione.

[Supermario]

Mentre Cina e Russia sono in procinto di dotarsi del loro primo aereo full five generations, gli USA già pensano alla sesta.

La Boeing ha pubblicato recentemente le prime anticipazioni di quello che viene provvisoriamente chiamato F/A-XX.

Il caccia raffigurato nelle immagini sarà la risposta Boeing all' attesa specifica dell' US NAVY.

L' F/A-XX sarebbe concepito per sostituire i Boeing F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet" dopo il 2025.

Ciò smentisce le ipotesi secondo la quale nelle intenzioni dell' US NAVY ci sarebbe una flotta monotipo basata esclusivamente sull' F-35 "Lightning II".

La stessa US NAVY ha dichiarato che tra i requisiti del programma F/A-XX ci saranno una velocità di crociera subsonica ed un autonomia di almeno 50 ore di volo.

Nella proposta Boeing appare un aereo bimotore e biposto, ovviamente stealth, caratterizzato da una grande ala a delta raccordata alla fusoliera e del tutto privo di impennaggi di coda, sia orizzontali che verticali.

[ulver81]

Ma non erano stati annunciati tagli per tali progetti da Obama stesso?
Una curiosità: la Cina produce i 27.Quale modello di quinta generazione potrebbe progettare?

[Supermario]

Ma non erano stati annunciati tagli per tali progetti da Obama stesso?
Una curiosità: la Cina produce i 27.Quale modello di quinta generazione potrebbe progettare?

Può darsi benissimo che i tagli siano arrivati solo dopo la pubblicazione del numero di Settembre di Aeronautica & Difesa

Riguardo la 5 generazione cinese si parla di un nuovo progetto chiamato J-12 sviluppato da Nanchang, conosciuto anche come J-XX.



E' circolata anche questa immagine, ma si pensa ad un fake, un fotomontaggio.

[ulver81]

Può darsi benissimo che i tagli siano arrivati solo dopo la pubblicazione del numero di Settembre di Aeronautica & Difesa

Riguardo la 5 generazione cinese si parla di un nuovo progetto chiamato J-12 sviluppato da Nanchang, conosciuto anche come J-XX.



E' circolata anche questa immagine, ma si pensa ad un fake, un fotomontaggio.

Il J-12 vero, è stato annunciato proprio dall'agenzia Xinhua.
Sulle immagini del progetto probabile siano un fake perchè fino ad ora non sono mai circolate (solitamente alla fiera di Shangai espongon tutto da quel che so).

[ulver81]

China’s 5th generation fighter planes challenging US prowess

The Aviation world and defense analysts have watched in amazement as the the Red dragon has gained military prowess in missile, space and air craft technology. China has gained technological independence which means that The terms 4th generation and 5th generation fighters are thrown about without regard to technical ability. This article sheds light on the Air Force parlance as well as the current status of the Chinese Air Crafts which have already crossed the 4th generation threshold (China crosses Military Technology Independence Threshold). According to press reports and defense analysts China is now producing the 5th generation air craft without active help of the Russians.
# Chinese H-8 stealth Bomber and list of Chinese Aircraft
# With $30 Billion China building Jxx 5th generation Fighter
# Chinese Flankers
# Chinese J-11s
# Are the J-11s going to be JF-18 Thunders?
# Why did Pakistan buy fewer F-16s? Hint:J-11s
# “Russian” Planes “Made in China



Mr. Richard D. Fisher is a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center. He is the author of “China’s Military Modernization: Building for Regional and Global Reach. He has recently written an article about the prowess of the Chinese Air Force. Much of what he has written is based on information which is three to five years old. However the article does identify some major points which we have republished here on Rupee News and Military Strategy. We closely watch the trends and have monitored the development of the J-10, J-10b as well as the J-11 much more closely than Mr. Fischer. The bottom line of Mr. Fisher’s article is that the Chinese have developed their own 5th generation air craft and this military prowess challenges the US supremacy in a significant way.

Both our analysis and Mr. Fischer’s review clearly show that the new aircrafts do not eliminate the air superiority of the US in any manner, however it is pedagogical to note that Chinese military and aviation advancement is right up there and in some ways challenges the air of various countries on its borders.

* The Impact of Chinese Commercial Jumbo Jets for the world
* With $30 Billion China building Jxx 5th Generation Fighter
* Beyond the Chinese made J-10s: – the J-11s
* J-10B: Advances in electronics and engines enable the new “four-plus” generation fighters that recently were tested withthe help of active feedback from the Pakistani Air Force withhas extensive experience with American and French fighter–something the Chinese PLA Air Force lacks.
* These fighters and the Chinese fifth-generation fighters will pose a more effective challenge to current and future U.S. air forces, and will make obsolete the fourth-generation fighter fleets of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan
* J-11 and beyond: The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, famous for developing the fourth-generation J-10 fighter has developed a medium-weight fifth-generation plane comparable to the F-35 with built in vertical take-off and aircraft carrier versions.
* The competing Shenyang Aircraft Corporation has built a single-engine forward-swept-wing highly maneuverable and stealthy fighter.
* The PLA envisions two levels to its program: a heavy fighter for maintaining air superiority, and a medium-weight plane that’s cheaper and more versatile.
* The U.S. Navy currently has no program for a fifth-generation fighter as good as the F-22, but instead intends to rely on the slower F-35C, which is optimized for attack missions.

Pakistan has been pushing the frontiers of the J-10s and the J-11s in terms of structural redisgn, cockpit improvement, increased thrust power for the engines, Beyond Visual Range and other latest innovations. Thus the end result is a new plane which is vastly superior than what it would have been without Pakistani input and help.

Chinese technology exports to Pakistan: JF-17 Thunder, J-10s, J-11s. This alliance has propelled the aircraft manufacturing of China to new levels and given the Pakistanis access to Chinese acumen which it did not have before. JF-17 Thunders

ZHUKOVSKY, Russia—Withfew exceptions, Beijing rarely says much of substance about its ongoing military build-up or its strategic thinking. But the overriding message from the recent Moscow Airshow and other airshows, plus occasional interviews with Chinese and Russian engineers, is that Beijing is not conceding next-generation air superiority to anyone, least of all the United States.

Exhibit A is Beijing’slong-running effort to build a fifth-generation fighter plane equivalent to the U.S. F-22 and F-35. Such planes use extensive stealth and advanced radar and can usually “supercruise,” or fly supersonically for extended periods without using fuel-guzzling afterburners. In what may be the only public reference to the program by a Chinese official, the Commander of the People’s Liberation Army Navy mentioned their requirement for a fighter capable of “supersonic cruise” during 60thanniversary celebrations in April. Today this can only be achieved by the U.S. F-22A Raptor, the world’s only operational fifth-generation fighter.

To be sure, China faces many technical obstacles. Development of advanced engines capable of 15-ton thrust levels is a particularly serious bottleneck. But China’s fifth-generation efforts date back to the early 1990s and will start with two heavy fighters from China’s two main fighter companies. A Chinese source told me in early 2005 that the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, famous for developing the fourth-generation J-10 fighter, was considering the development of a medium-weight fifth-generation plane comparable to the F-35. This could mean that Chengdu’s fighter will be built in vertical take-off and aircraft carrier versions. In 2006, the competing Shenyang Aircraft Corporation revealed a concept for a single-engine forward-swept-wing fighter that would be highly maneuverable and potentially stealthy. It seems the PLA envisions two levels to its program: a heavy fighter for maintaining air superiority, and a medium-weight plane that’s cheaper and more versatile.

Even before China’s fifth-generation fighter flies, advances in electronics and engines will enable new “four-plus” generation fighters, like the J-10B that recently began flight testing. These fighters and eventual fifth-generation fighters will pose a more effective challenge to current and future U.S. air forces, and will make obsolete the fourth-generation fighter fleets of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. The U.S. Navy currently has no program for a fifth-generation fighter as good as the F-22, but instead intends to rely on the slower F-35C, which is optimized for attack missions. SEPTEMBER 1, 2009, 48 P.M. ET China Puts Up a Fighter Beijing’s fifth-generation military challenge to the U.S. By RICHARD D. FISHER JR

The Pakistanis pushed the Chinese for the JF-17 Thunder design improvement. The Pakistanis have a distinct advantage that the Chinese don’t have. Islamabad has the experience with Western technology, begining with the F-104, and the F-86 Sabres and ending with the latest F-16s. This has taken the JF-17 Thunder to new technological heights, specially because it has been upgraded with European technological innovation and duplicated Russian and American goodies.

Mr. Fischer says that the Chinese 5th generation air craft make the Korean and Japanese fleet obsolete. Of course the Chinese are so far ahead of the Bharati (aka Indians) that it is not even funny. Bharat is just now beginning to purchase stripped down versions of the 3rd-4th generation air carft from Russia and the US. The Bharativenture to jointly “develop” an aircraft with the Russians has ended up as a fiasco as the Russians pretty much went ahead and developed the air craft and are selling Bharat the ‘export” (read severely downgraded) versions of its Su and Mig air craft. Russia used to need Bharati Dollars to sell it all the junk it could (Mig 21 Flying Coffins, the New Flying Coffins, obsolete Air craft carriers at twice the price, missiles that don’t work) not pawn off elsewhere. Bharat’s efforts at diversification have also been a dismal failure, as Israeli missiles have not worked either.

The PLAaims to use these programs as a vehicle for beefing up its research and development capacity to reduce its reliance on Russian and other foreign technologies. A Ukrainian source here disclosed that his company is in discussions withChengdu-associated institutes on the development of what could become a second fifth-generation engine program for China. But an official with the Sukhoifighter company, which has sold many planes to China, stated pointedly that they are not helping China withits fifth-generation program. They’re cooperating withIndia instead on New Delhi’s own fifth-generation fighter development. Russia’s main reason appears to be business; China has not signed a treaty protecting intellectual property. China could be motivated by technological nationalism.

China’s moves to go it alone could have several consequences. Beijing’s current reliance on Russian technologies effectively gives Moscow a veto over China’s sales of its planes to third parties. As Beijing gains expertise designing its own indigenous engines, it will free itself from this constraint, allowing greater latitude to sell advanced fighters for its own aims. The new J-10B may already be slated for Pakistan, advancing the arms race on the Indian subcontinent.

There are worrying signs that the U.S. either does not fully appreciate the consequences of Chinese advanced fourth-generation and fifth-generation fighters entering the market, or is willfully ignoring them. In July, Defense Secretary Robert Gates publicly predicted that by 2020 “nearly 1,100 [combat aircraft in the U.S. Air Force] will be the most advanced fifth-generation F-35s and F-22s. China, by contrast, is projected to have no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020. And by 2025, the gap only widens.” Armed with this apparent assessment by the U.S. intelligence community, by the end of July the Obama administration had overruled congressional objections and stopped production of the F-22A at 187 by 2012.

This is a big gamble, and seems like a bad bet in light of China’s apparent determination to push forward with its own fifth-generation program. If this bet does go south, it could cost America future air superiority in the Pacific. It could deny a key U.S. ally, Japan, a significant non-nuclear means for deterring Chinese aggression. It could also be bad for the U.S. companies like Lockheed-Martin and Boeing commercially. Washington’s inability to offer a fifth-generation “champion” fighter could push South Korea and Japan to turn to French technologies to develop their own fifth-generation programs.

Mr. Gates and the U.S. intelligence community could prove to be correct, but they have so far offered little public data to explain the prediction that has served to justify such a potentially fateful decision. Meanwhile, despite the PLA’s lack of meaningful transparency Beijing’sown goals are crystal clear. It would be far smarter for the U.S. to prepare for the likelihood that Beijing will develop and build far more than 187 fifth-generation air-superiority fighters. Mr. Fisher is a senior fellow with the International Assessment and Strategy Center and is the author of “China’s Military Modernization: Building for Regional and Global Reach” (Preager, 2008). SEPTEMBER 1, 2009, 48 P.M. ET China Puts Up a Fighter Beijing’s fifth-generation military challenge to the U.S. By RICHARD D. FISHER JR.
According to reliable sources China has been able to duplicate the SU-27, the most lethal bird in the air. The Chinese version of the Sukhoi SU-27 (Flanker) is now called the J-11. The Su-30MKI (another derivative of the SU-27), a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical. The American Fighters belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. The F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.

Many countries with enormous resources and tremendous backing have tried to produce airplanes. The huge failures of the Brazilians (version of the SU 27) and the Israelis (Lavi) are in written in stone. Even the Indian efforts at domestic production of missiles and planes (LCA-Tejas, and other) is checkered with colossal failures. See report on this site by the Indian head of the Airforce. The Indian flying coffins, as well as the first Indian plane are pretty much grounded as is the Indian missile program

In the event that the Indian Air Force decides to procure massive numbers of Western 4.5 generation fighters, beyond the 126 MRCA, while increasing the Su-30MKI numbers and upgrades their MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s, the PAF has a clear charted path in increasing JF-17s and FC-20s, having by then set up the infrastructure and training for these planes. Further, the JF-17s would not only allow PAF to counter numbers, but also allow her to maintain larger numbers of FC-20s and F-16s for war-time and lower their depreciation – providing a low cost training aircraft to fly liberally during peacetime. This would be a similar arrangement to how the Israeli Air Force uses F-16s to keep meet the flight time allocations of its F-15 pilots. Grande Strategy

The airplanes in the Russian inventory are:

1.
SU-27 a fourth generation fighter
2.
SU33, and SU35 derivatives of the 4th generation SU-27s
The Pakistanis should be tight lipped about the new Chinese fighter and whether Pakistan is going to acquire any. The Chinese in a sweet deal of $2.5 Billion with the Russians purchased the right to produce the SK-27. The J-11 is a “third generation” aircraft.
Now, the efforts in China and Pakistan are underway to move to the air-forces to the latest planes like SU-27K which is now called SU-33.
What about the SU-35? The original Su-35 was a derivative of the Su-27 and essentially a ground-based variant of the Su-33. While the official Russian Air Force designation for the aircraft remained the Su-27M, Sukhoi rechristened the model as the Su-35 in the hopes of attracting foreign customers. The Brazilians wanted to produce it but in the end opted for the Mirage IIIs.

The Brazilian decision appeared to have ended the Su-35 program once and for all since Sukhoi had little success finding other customers. Hopes were briefly revived in May 2006 when Venezuela announced interest in the Su-35, but the nation instead chose a variant of the Su-30. The move is largely politically-motivated given recent tensions between Venezuela and the United States over America’s ban on providing support for the Venezuelan F-16 fleet. the Su-35 was revived at least in name in 2007 when Sukhoi announced the aircraft had entered production for the Russian Air Force. This incarnation is also a derivative of the Su-27
A derivative of the Su-27 ‘Flanker’, the Su-37 is a super-maneuverable thrust vectoring fighter. Designed from an Su-35 prototype, the Su-37 test aircraft (designated T10M-11) made its maiden flight in April 1996 from the Zhukovsky flight testing center near Moscow. The Su-37 is first Russian aircraft to feature thrust vectoring control comparable to the F-22 Raptor. (Global Aircraft -- Su-37 Flanker)

There are indications that Chengdu is becoming a major cooperation hub for Pakistan and China. Hints are flying that more is brewing at Chengdu than the FC-1 and the J-10 sourced from the ever reliable pshamim of pakdef. Apparently a consulate and a halal restaurant is opening up to accommodate the soft side of all these project ventures. Personally I would like to see a single engined stealth fighter come out of Chengdu, as much as the reports are that its going to be a twin engined plane. Whatever is cooking in Chengdu, its likely to be halal for the PAF. Grande Strategy

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China’s 5th generation fighter planes challenging US prowess RUPEE NEWS: Recording History, Narrating Archives, Strategic Intellibrief Analysis: Noticias de Rupia | Nouvelles de Roupie | Rupiennachrichten | ??????? ????? | ??

L'articolo è interessante.Riguardo la serie JXX rimangono come sempre notizie contrastanti in rete (come per tutto quel che concerne in realtà i progetti militari cinesi).

[ulver81]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqjG2qzj7XM