Altre foto di torture vengono nascoste al pubblico...

[pietro]

Senators to See More Iraqi Abuse Photos

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By KEN GUGGENHEIM, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Senators are getting a look at more photos of American soldiers brutalizing Iraqi prisoners but won't have the authority to release the pictures that the Pentagon (news - web sites) warns could deepen international fury over the abuses.





The photographs were being made available for three hours Wednesday afternoon in a high-security, classified office in the Capitol. After that, they were to be returned to the Pentagon while the Bush administration decides whether to make them public.


Fears that the prisoner abuses would trigger a violent backlash appeared to be realized Tuesday when a video was posted on an al-Qaida linked Web site showing the beheading of an American civilian. The video said the killing was to avenge the prisoner abuse.


The viewing of pictures in the Capitol comes a day after senators challenged military officials who pinned most of the blame for the mistreatment on a small group of soldiers and on supervisors who provided inadequate training and leadership.


The Army officer who investigated the abuses, Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, told the Senate Armed Services Committee (news - web sites) that military police who acted improperly did so "of their own volition."


But several senators questioned whether low-ranking soldiers would have created the sexually humiliating scenarios by themselves.


"It implies too much knowledge of what would be particularly humiliating to these Muslim prisoners," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine. "And that is why, even though I do not yet have the evidence, I cannot help but suspect that others were involved, that military intelligence personnel were involved, or people further up the chain of command."


Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., challenged Taguba on his statement that Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who headed the 800th Military Police Brigade at the prison, bore responsibility for a breakdown in discipline that led to abuse.


Taguba testified that orders were issued taking tactical control of the Abu Ghraib facility away from Karpinski and given to Col. Thomas M. Pappas, commander of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade.


"It was clear that he was directed to be the forward operating base commander there for security detainees and force protection," Taguba said. "However, General Karpinski challenged that and she noted that in her recorded testimony."


Taguba said the order placing Pappas in charge of prison policy where Karpinski's MPs worked created a confusing situation and was contrary to Army doctrine. Nonetheless, he found that Karpinski retained overall responsibility for the MPs in her brigade and assigned much of the blame for the abuse to inadequate leadership on her part.


Asked to put in simple words how the abuses happened, Taguba said: "Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down. Lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision. Supervisory omission was rampant."


Karpinski has been suspended and issued an official letter of admonishment in connection with the abuse. She has not been charged and has asserted other officers are attempting to make her a scapegoat.


The committee's chairman, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., said he understood that some of the photos, such as one showing an Iraqi prisoner with women's underwear covering his head, were to be shown to prisoners' families "by way of threat unless he came forward with some valuable information."


The committee has now held two hearings on the abuses in less than a week and planned a third for Thursday. But Warner has expressed frustration about the amount of information military officials were providing. They have skirted many questions by citing ongoing investigations or criminal proceedings.


Given the "ramifications on foreign policy, on safety of the troops, on everything, I think the higher authorities of this government have got to be informed about it in a manner that still protects" criminal proceedings, Warner said in a brief interview.


But another Republican senator, James Inhofe of Oklahoma, said the abuse issue already has been overblown, with the news media and politicians using it for political purposes.





"I am also outraged that we have so many humanitarian do-gooders right now crawling all over these prisons looking for human rights violations while our troops, our heroes, are fighting and dying," he said.

Inhofe was later tacitly rebuked by Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who was held as a prisoner of war for 5 1/2 years in Vietnam. McCain asked three Army officials whether the Geneva Conventions, which dictate the terms for humane treatment of prisoners, were a burden on U.S. military activities. All three said the conventions were needed to protect U.S. soldiers in conflicts and to demonstrate the United States' moral integrity.

McCain said "if somehow we convey the impression that we've got to do whatever is necessary and humanitarian do-gooders have no place in this arena — which I believe the International Red Cross has an important role to play — then I think we're setting ourselves up for some very serious consequences for American fighting men and women in conflicts in the future."

The material senators were reviewing Wednesday — which a Senate aide said included at least one video — was expected to show abuses that go well beyond the sexual humiliation depicted in photos already circulating publicly.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters last week, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder." Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said of the photos and videos: "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

Some lawmakers have urged the Bush administration to release all the photos at once. They say that would be less damaging than seeing the photos gradually surface in the media a few at a time over weeks or months.

But Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said Tuesday that releasing additional photos was "not just a matter of sort of whetting people's appetites to see sensational stuff here."

"We wouldn't want, as a result of the release of pictures ... to allow guilty parties off the hook," Cheney told Fox News Radio. "By the same token, you don't want to see innocent people inappropriately maligned by virtue of the release of photographs."

___

On the Net:

Full texts of Senate and House hearings:

http://wid.ap.org/transcripts/iraqfront.html

The Taguba report:

http://wid.ap.org/documents/iraq/taguba.pdf

[Pablo]

credo sia meglio, per decenza, non far vedere più altre immagini. Quelle che sono girate sono già molto eloquenti, e non dimentichiamoci che la televisione, i telegiornali, i giornali ed internet li vedono anche i bambini. Quando vedo queste immagini, oltre all'orrore ed al disgusto per quello che hanno fatto e stanno facendo - da entrambe le parti sia ben chiaro - penso ai bambini e a cosa provano nel vedere gli adulti comportarsi così, Bell'esempio di educazione che arriva dai grandi!

[pietro]

Sono d'accordo fino ad un certo punto perche' qui si rischia di insabbiare tutto e di far vedere solo una parte dello schifo commesso dalla Coalizione .
Sembra , infatti, che i crimini e gli abusi vadano molto al di la' di quelle foto fatte vedere sinora: si parla infatti di uccisioni e stupri e questa notizia conferma la gravita' di quanto riportato su molti giornali :

11.01 - SENATORI USA VEDRANNO OGGI FOTO INEDITE. I componenti della commissione Difesa del Senato americano potranno vedere oggi, in una sessione privata, altre foto sulle torture ai prigionieri iracheni. Il presidente della commissione Jonh Warner ha riferito che il Pentagono metterà le immagini a disposizione dei parlamentari per un'ora, dalle 14 alle 15 ora locale (dalle 19 alle 20 italiane), sotto controllo per impedire che ne siano fatte copie. Tutto il materiale, poi, sarà restituito al ministero della Difesa e non sarà permesso neppure ai più stretti collaboratori dei senatori di vederlo.

[Pablo]

ma io non voglio assolutamente che venga insabbiata la questione, tutt'altro. Solo che dobbiamo stare attenti alla divulgazione, in quanto i bambini hanno una sensibilità maggiore degli adulti. Nascondere e dimenticare mai, insegnare e far capire cos'è successo si, purtroppo non sarà facile dare una motivazione quando diranno: perchè?

troppo facile dire gli americani sono fatti così, come dare la colpa solo ai mussulmani o agli ebrei o ai palestinesi.......................

[pietro]

Ai bambini stiamoci un po' piu' attenti noi a non tenerli davanti all TV ...Agli adulti voglio solo dire che qui la VERITA' deve uscire fuori in tutta la sua nuda crudezza perche' è giusto conoscere di quali nefandezze si copre chi parla di "democrazia" "liberta'" e amenita' varie.

Nessuno vuole colpevolizzare un popolo, ma è ora che anche quel popolo americano di cui tanto si parla come di una vittima della propria classe dirigente si dia una svegliata e forse vedere di cosa sono stati capaci i suoi "heroes" in Irak potrebbe fargli cambiare idea.Forse perche' personalmente non nutro grandi speranze in un paese che ha nella sua idea missionaria la causa dei maili presenti.

[pietro]

Per il Vaticano le torture sui prigionieri per gli Usa hanno un effetto peggiore dell'11 settembre .

Torture of Iraqi prisoners more serious blow to US than 9-11: Vatican FM

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ROME (AFP) - The torture of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers is a harder blow to the United States than the September 11 attacks in the sense that Washington itself is responsible for the prison scandal, the Vatican (news - web sites)'s foreign minister was quoted as saying by the daily La Repubblica.




"The tortures? They are a harder blow for the United States than September 11 in the sense that this blow was not carried out by terrorists but it was the Amercans who inflicted it upon themselves," Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo told the newspaper.


He added that the scandal marked a "tragic" point in relations with the Muslim world where, he said, the majority of people -- influenced by the Arab mass media -- "can't but feel aversion and hatred toward the West".


He recalled that Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II had spoken clearly against the war.


"Had they listened to him we wouldn't have so many regrets," he said. "Violence engenders violence, war engenders war."


US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) is due to meet with the pontiff in June during his trip to Europe to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the D-Day invasion.


It will be Bush's third meeting with the pope and the first since the Iraq (news - web sites) war a year ago.