Una mappa antichissima (anche troppo) della Terra

[Tomás de Torquemada]

(...se non è una bufala, o un colossale errore di datazione, la notizia è semplicemente clamorosa...)


Da Televideo

UNA MAPPA ANTICHISSIMA DELLA TERRA
Russia, ritrovamento "inspiegabile"

Una mappa della regione degli Urali sarebbe stata identificata da scienziati russi su una lastra risalente a 120 milioni di anni fa.
La mappa con iscrizioni in una lingua geroglifica-sillabica sconosciuta sarebbe stata realizzata con strumenti di precisione e grazie a prospezioni aeree. Secondo il prof. Chuvyrov, che definisce “inspiegabile” la mappa, la lastra trovata sarebbe solo un frammento di una enorme mappa della Terra, che data l’età ipotizzata sconvolgerebbe tutte le conoscenze finora acquisite, considerando che l’uomo di Neanderthal comparve sulla Terra 75.000 anni fa.

[Skepto]

Mah... ci sono decisamente troppi ritrovamenti e coincidenze per non fare pensare ad una civiltà precedente alla nostra, primo fra tutti il racconto del diluvio universale presente nella cultura di moltissimi popoli.

[Ichthys]

Se non si tratta di una montatura sarebbe una cosa pazzesca (alieni?). Mi piacerebbe tanto dare un'occhiata a quella scrittura!

[white_rage]

Cari amici avevo fatto menzione del ritrovamento qualche tempo fa proprio qui:
http://www.politicaonline.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=8913

Cordiali saluti.

[Tomás de Torquemada]

E' vero, carissimo white_rage... e la ringrazio, come sempre... :)

Purtroppo, essendo in lingua inglese, mi ero istintivamente limitato a farlo scorrere, senza concentrare la mia attenzione su quel bellissimo post... Le chiedo scusa, dunque... :)

Salutoni.

[Tomás de Torquemada]

A proposito: potrei chiederle la sua opinione su questo reperto?

Ancora saluti.

[white_rage]

C'e' di piu': articolo di oggi segue.

Caro Tomás io credo che per i singoli reperti la parola spetti ai tecnici e agli eruditi del mestiere.

Per quanto ci riguarda si deve invece fare opera di integrazione, cioe' raggiungere una visione sintetica e d'insieme della faccenda.

Cio' implica rendersi consapevoli della varieta' e qualita' dei reperti antichi e delle fonti e della loro eterogenea provenienza.

Aggiungerei anche che certi "istituti" quali lo Smithsonian e il National geographic, mentre apparentemente hanno funzione divulgativa, molto spesso si occupano proprio di occultare ritrovamenti che potrebbero essere scomodi per la versione ufficiale della realta'.

In questo riguardo il mondo russo e' molto interessante perche' in Russia sono comunemente conosciuti fatti che in Occidente sono stati metodicamente sottratti allo scrutinio pubblico.

Direi anche che certi ritrovamenti vanno al di la della curiosita' e del sensazionalismo in quanto potrebbero indurre alcuni a meditare sul senso delle "grandi distanze", temporali in questo casi, spaziali in altri analoghi.

Saluti.




*** *** ***



Pravda.RU:Top Stories:More in detail

19:57 2002-06-05
3-D MAP OF THE EARTH CREATED 120 MILLION YEARS AGO. ON-LINE PRESS CONFERENCE WITH ALEXANDER CHUVYROV

June 6, at 4:00 p.m (Moscow Time) PRAVDA.Ru will hold an on-line press conference with Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Science Alexander CHUVYROV. The professor of Bashkir State University found indisputable evidence of the existence of an ancient, highly developed civilization in the Urals. His find is a huge slab, whose age is supposed to be about 120 million years.

"Our research topic is about the possible migration of ancient Chinese to the territory of modern Russia: Siberia and Urals. We have discovered letters on the rocks made in ancient Chinese about 3000 years ago. During our research in the Ufa archives, we discovered notes from the end of 18th century about 200 unusual ancient stone plates. Our idea was that these plates are somehow connected to Chinese migrants.

Thus we were looking for an ancient civilization, but much closer to ourselves. We were expecting to see nothing more than hieroglyphs or pictures with a running mammoth and deer typical for that period. There were six expeditions organized, and in 28 July 1999, at 1.06 meters underground, we found the plate now called “Dashkin kamen” (“kamen” is stone in Russian). It has a significant size: about 1.5 meters in height, more than 1 meter wide, and 16 cm thick. It weights more than 1 ton. In the scientists’ opinion, it is a relief, a 3-D map.

We were absolutely happy; we thought we found a product made more 2000 years ago. The plate itself is artificial. It was produced from a special cement of three layers, and the third layer is a white-colored porcelain. It should be noticed that the relief on this plate was not cut manually with some ancient stonecutter. It is evident that some mechanical work was done.

There is a region from Ufa up to the town of Salavat represented on the plate. Ufa's hills are very familiar from one side. From the other side there are some changes. Firstly, we were surprised by the Ufa canyon: the break in the earth’s crust from the present Ufa to the present Sterlitomak city. There was a river in it 2-3 kilometers deep and 3-4 kilometers wide. Nevertheless, this break is one of the principal points of our theory. We conducted geological research and found it’s track in the place where it should be theoretically. Tectonic plates from the East crushed it for about 10-15 kilometers to the West. We assume that, now, the Urshak River is in the place of this former canyon.

There are not only rivers, but two systems of channels up to 500 meters wide and a total length of 12,000 kilometers. The whole hydro system includes 12 dams 300-500 meters wide, 10 kilometers long, and 2-3 kilometers deep. They made it possible to turn water from any side into any channel. About 1000 trillion cubic meters of soil were moved to create this."

A.N.Chuvyrov
Specially for PRAVDA.Ru
Huang Hong

Photograph: Alexandr Chuvyrov

PRAVDA.Ru The map of "the Creator "http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/06/05/29825.html

[lsu]

Non è che quei studiosi russi sono pure grandi e abitudinari cultori della vodka?

;)

[Colombo da Priverno]

da "La Stampa"

SCIENZIATI RUSSI: GLI URALI SCOLPITI NELLA PIETRA 120 MILIONI DI ANNI FA
«Abbiamo rintracciato la mappa del Creatore»

MOSCA

Una mappa tridimensionale, dove una mano ignota ha inciso i rilievi della terra 120 milioni di anni fa. «Cambia tutte le vostre idee riguardo alla vita su questo pianeta? Noi ormai abbiamo fatto abitudine al nostro miracolo». Il professore Alexandr Chuvyrov sembra convinto che il suo misterioso ritrovamento sia una scoperta sensazionale, anche se ammette che gli interrogativi sono ancora più numerosi delle certezze. Ma di una cosa è convinto: la lastra minerale che ha trovato tre anni fa in un villaggio della Bashkiria, ai piedi degli Urali, è una mappa geografica tracciata da una civiltà ignota. La lastra del mistero, esposta oggi al museo archeologico di Ufa, misura 148 centimetri di altezza, 106 di larghezza e 16 di spessore. Pesa una tonnellata e mezzo. A prima vista sembra una pietra di superficie irregolare. Ma Chuvyrov dice di aver capito subito che era una mappa, appena l´ha dissotterrata nel villaggio bashkiro di Chandar. Ripulita, ha svelato i suoi strani rilievi, e i disegni: venature che sembrano strade o fiumi, rombi, iscrizioni verticali in geroglifici indecifrabili. Secondo il professore, si tratta del disegno di un sistema di irrigazione ramificato: canali larghi 500 metri per una lunghezza totale di 12 mila chilometri, con 12 gigantesche dighe. Chuvyrov, professore di chimica all´università di Ufa, appassionato di archeologia, era alla ricerca di cimeli di ipotetiche migrazioni di antichi cinesi, e ha pensato a un´incisione di 2 mila anni fa, con scritte in cinese. Ma il linguaggio geroglifico sillabico della lastra è ancora da decifrare. Come la sua provenienza. Non si tratta infatti di roccia naturale, ma di un manufatto composto da tre strati. Il primo, spesso 14 centimetri, è dolomite, il secondo - sul quale sono incisi i disegni - è fatto di diopside con tecnologia sconosciuta, il terzo, due millimetri, è di porcellana e funge da schermo protettivo. Un prodotto artificiale, dunque, fatto per giunta con tecniche sconosciute: Chuvyrov sostiene che i disegni non sono stati prodotti dalla mano di un artigiano, ma da uno strumento. Quando? Esami al carbonio e all´uranio datavano la lastra come antica di millenni, ma poi nei suoi strati sono state trovate due conchiglie: l´Ecculiomphalus princeps, estinta 120 milioni di anni fa, e la Navicopsina munitus, vecchia di 500 milioni di anni. Un manufatto risalente all´epoca dei dinosauri sembra impossibile. Certo, ammette il professore, gli ignoti geografi avrebbero potuto usare un pezzo di roccia con una conchiglia incapsulata millenni prima, ma è pronto a dare altre prove della sua ipotesi di datazione. Da un esame è emerso che i rilievi della lastra corrispondono alla moderna regione tra Ufa e Sterlitamak, salvo alcune variazioni, come il canyon che la percorre. Ricerche geologiche hanno stabilito che in effetti nella zona c´era una spaccatura, scomparsa milioni di anni fa. «La mappa - dice il ricercatore - è stata tracciata quando il polo magnetico della Terra si trovava presso l´attuale Terra di Francesco Giuseppe, appunto circa 120 milioni di anni fa». Chi potrebbe aver tracciato una mappa così antica? Gli specialisti del centro di cartografia storica del Wisconsin sono rimasti sconvolti: secondo loro, una proiezione tridimensionale di questo genere può essere realizzata solo grazie a prospezioni aeree. L´inevitabile ipotesi dei marziani viene però respinta dall´autore della scoperta con fastidio: «Non mi piace parlare di Ufo ed extraterrestri». E poi aggiunge: «Chiamiamo l´autore della mappa semplicemente il creatore». Il doppio senso è evidente, come anche lo scetticismo dei ricercatori «ufficiali» degli istituti accademici verso quella che i giornali hanno già battezzato «la mappa del creatore» e verso il suo scopritore, un dottore in fisica che ha sconfinato nell´archeologia. Ma Chuvyrov è pieno di entusiasmo. Negli archivi del ´700 ha trovato descrizioni di decine di lastre che assomigliano alla sua mappa, e ha intenzione di scovarle. Crede che la pietra che ha trovato sia solo un frammento di un gigantesco mosaico di 348 tessere, sul quale il «creatore» ha riprodotto il mondo. Con quale obiettivo? «Forse voleva colonizzarlo».
Anna Zafesova

[G. Oberdan]

Mi piacerebbe molto vederla e soprattutto vedere le iscrizioni. Comunque per me è pacifico che i grandi istituti di ricerca molto spesso scartano a priori ogni soluzione o notizia che non sia completamente ortodossa senza nemmeno vagliarla all'attenzione del pubblico.
Pensate alla scoperta di acqua ghiacciata ai poli di Marte. E' stata data molto in sordina ed invece è una scoperta straordinaria!
A meno che queste cose non facciano parte di un disegno... ultimamente le scoperte "sensazionali" sono in aumento. Forse si vuole assuefare la popolazione mondiale con certe notizie per poi renderla partecipe di una grande verità?

[white_rage]

http://english.pravda.ru/chuvirov.html

http://english.pravda.ru/chuvirov_photo.html

16:20
PRAVDA.Ru, Moscow

Good afternoon, Alexandr Nikolaevich!

We are glad to see you in our office. We would like to notice that the material about your find was read by at least 500 thousand readers of both English and Russian versions of our edition.
Already before the conference, there were about 60 questions, so taking into account the time limits, you should manage to answer as more questions as possible. Let us begin.

Thank you for the possibility to tell about my find. I on myself could judge about the number of people who

have read the publications. Just after they were published, correspondents of foreign TV channels and of different editions started to call me. And I am thankful for this, too, because you have drawn attention of world information agencies to my discovery. I would try to give short answers to answer to all readers. And afterwards, I would prepare more detailed answers.

16:37
Novosibirsk

Dear Professor, and what about the Charles Darwin theory? Or probably the age of anthropoid apes is
in actual fact much older? Could, for example, a conclusion be made basing on your find that people lived already in the epoch of dinosaurs?

Unfortunately, I have never asked myself about the possible creator of the slab covered with the map. My


task was simple: I had to investigate the found object and to describe it, to investigate materials of which the slab was made and to try to answer the question about the object’s age.

16:49
a.ildar@au.ru

In what region was the slab found? Is it far from the described territory? Are there any surmises about
where the other slabs could be? Probably, if other slabs are found, the question about Athlantida will be answered?

The slab was found at a distance of 120 km from the city of Ufa, in Chandar settlement. Today, we can
speak about location of five more slabs, while raising of them needs additional financing. As for the Athlantida, I am not a specialist on this field.

Sir,
Dino Pogodin, San Paolo (Brazil)

Are there any publication about the find in international scientific magazines? If there are some, so
where? And what was foreign scientists’ reaction to your find?

Unfortunately, there are only publications in Russian-language magazines, for example in Prirodnye
Resursy, number 12, for the year 1999. Though, many foreign scientists have addressed to my through the Internet, offering co-operation. The work has been just started.

17:10
Los Angeles

What made you to carry out searches namely in that place and at that depth? Why did you suppose that
this would be namely the first slab of the 200 as if making up the whole map? And why namely that piece of the map was found which presents the region? Why no more slab was found? Do you completely exclude the possibility of a forgery?

There are special methods to identify places according to maps, for example, through hydrological situation,

to be more exact, through identifying rivers, lakes etc. This could be also done through certain characteristics of relief, for example, through mountains, vales etc. There are computer methods which allow to do it very fast. On the other hand, changes of relief are well known, which took place over latest millions of years, there are special computer programmes allowing to modulate these processes. These methods were used in our work. As for the full number of the slabs, I consider information to be true about archaelogical finds from 1921. There is information about six slabs, so we will speak about these six slabs.

17:17
St Petersburg

Has your find some links with today’s views on appearance of our civilization?

I repeat it one more time: I do not occupy myself with civilizations’ appearance or disappearance. I only

investigate the object and its characteristics and present results of my investigation. There are many things I cannot explain. If you have some explanations, please, present them.

17:10

Los Angeles

What made you carry out searches namely in that place and at that depth? Why did you suppose that
this would be namely the first slab of the 200 as if making up the whole map? And why namely that piece of the map was found which presents the region? Why no more slab was found? Do you completely exclude the possibility of a forgery?

There are special methods to identify places according to maps, for example, through hydrological situation,

to be more exact, through identifying rivers, lakes etc. This could be also done through certain characteristics of relief, for example, through mountains, vales etc. There are computer methods which allow to do it very fast. On the other hand, changes of relief are well known, which took place over latest millions of years, there are special computer programmes allowing to modulate these processes. These methods were used in our work. As for the full number of the slabs, I consider information to be true about archaelogical finds from 1921. There is information about six slabs, so we will speak about these six slabs.

17:36
Norilsk

Where could I find the slab’s picture, and if possible, of high quality?

In the nearest future, PRAVDA.Ru will publish a series of photographs. You could work with them.

17:38



Vadim Surikov, Harbin, China

Good afternoon, Professor!

Do you know something about views on this question of Yelena Blavatskaya (the author of The Secret Doctrine) or of somebody of her associates? What do you think about theosophy ideas?

I am not interested in theosophy. The greatest specialist in theosophy is Mrs Huang Hung, my post-

graduate student from China. I am not a religious person. The title The Map of the Creator is just a collective notion.

17:50


Rudolf and Vladimir, Moscow

Dear Mr Chuvyrov!

Several questions to you.
1. Which methods did you use to determine the age of the slab you have found?
2. Who were that scientists who investigated the slab?
3. As a matter of fact, this slab is not an ordinary scientific sensation, but a serious material proof of how little we know about our planed. If possible, could you appraise in percent the level of journalistic distortion of information about the slab published by PRAVDA.Ru. Thank you.

A special commission worked at the problem. Therefore, this is a result of many people’s work. At the same
time, there are delicate questions: for example, the questions about the inscription, about materials of what the slab was produced, about the map on the slab. On these questions, we had consultations with the Chinese.
As for journalists, we should not criticize them, because their aim is to present some information to average readers, without burdening them with some scientific theories.

18:09

Ostroukhov Nikolay

Dear Alexander, our institute developed a geo-radar that can search for foreign bodies at the depth of
up to 50 meters under the ground and at the depth of up to 100 meters under the ice and fresh water. This radar is currently manufactured. Let’s discuss the opportunities for our equipment to search for other fragments.

Please call (347) 2286278

18:18




Sergey

1. Can I find any photographs of the stone on the net?

2. What is it that the stone is made of? Isn’t the material too primitive?
3. Was the stone painted, like modern relief maps?
4. Were there any traces to indicate some kind of automation, for example lamp lights, wire traces or anything like that?
5. What do you think is the stone meant for?

There can be lots of materials made up, but they chose that method, there was such a technology,


apparently. The fact that the map consists of three layers, is identified with bad quality of the base layer, that is why they used geopsid glass of high microhardness indication. I cannot answer questions number three and four

18:22

Ivan

This is just a cracky stone and you made God knows what out of it.


Unfortunately, no one had enough fantasy to suppose a thing like that.

18:30



Alma-Ata

1. Will the search continue to find more stones with relief maps?

2. If there are new slabs found, will it prove that there were highly-developed civilizations on the planet that most likely left other traces of their existence on Earth and in the Solar system?
3. What struck you most in your discovery and what are your subjective ideas that you have not shared yet with the readers?

The stone itself struck me most. The location of five other stones is known and if there are enough funds

assigned for the works, then they will be retrieved and exhibited in museums. The slabs are located in different settlements of the Nurimansky region of the republic of Bashkiria. The question pertaining to highly-developed civilizations is outside my competence. A special international committee is supposed to answer this question after five other slabs are found. Are there any more slabs? It is an important and interesting question, but it is for the next generation.

18:33

Sergey Sokolov, Moscow

Dear Professor Chuvyrov,

I would like to get more detailed information about the inscriptions on the map. Is there a photograph or an URL, where I could see that?

The photographs are going to be published on PRAVDA.Ru very soon

18:45




Igor Danilov, St.Petersburg

Could you please explain in simple language the way how the age of the stone lump and of the map was
identified? How do you distinguish those things? What proves in your discovery that the civilization was a highly-developed one? The way that the map was done, or is there any other evidence?

This is not a lump, it is an artificial slab, and the relief map was done artificially too. Unfortunately, there is

only an indirect way to identify the age of the map - paleontological or paleomagnetic method. Unfortunately, the uranic, or the argon methods can identify only the absolute age of the rock that was not used in the material of the map. The fact that the civilization was a highly-developed one can be proved with the absence of a 3-D map of the world nowadays. Another thing that can prove it is the knowledge of the written language and of the physical and mathematical laws.

18:54
Irina

Has the place changed a lot since the moment, when the map was done?


Of course, it has, but the Ural region is a quite place seismically, that is why the area wasp lace due to

erosion. One of the whole, the territory has not really changed for millions of year. NASA is working on the program to create 3D maps and you can become familiar with the results on their site.

19:08


Ivan

Hello, Professor,

After the information about your sensational discovery was published on the Internet, you became a famous person. You must be receiving a lot of letters, journalists must be getting in long lines to interview you?

No, I have not yet had those things. I do not have much time to answer all letters, this is hard work, I quit my


job a month ago and now I am working with my epistolary genre. Thank you!

19:34


Vasily

Did you receive a grand reaction to your discovery?


They wrote a lot about it. The articles about the map appeared in such Russian newspapers as

Komsomolskaya Pravda, Izvestia, Argumenty I Fakty, there were television programs. But when PRAVDA.Ru wrote about the discovery, I received tons of e-mails, over 20 thousand of them! Foreign television channels from Italy, Japan, Finland, Sweden, Germany wanted to interview me. My son found out how many people read the material that PRAVDA.Ru published and he told me that there were not less than two million people, not to mention those newspapers and magazines that reprinted your article in the West. I have received interesting scientific suggestions, which gave me food for thought. Thank you a lot!

19:58

Danila

Dear Professor Chuvyrov,

I would like to ask you a question regarding the identification of the slab’s age. Did you analyze the stone itself, or the ground that filled the cracks of the stone?

We analyzed the material of the stone. There are no cracks on it. There is a map of rivers and valleys that

was cut on it with special instruments.

http://pravda.ru/chuvirov/slab1.jpg

[Tomás de Torquemada]

Dal sito http://www.x-cosmos.it/

Quella mappa ha 120 milioni di anni
di Marco Pasciuti

http://www.x-cosmos.it/news/visualizza.php?id=631&PHPSESSID=ced71f23b8aa873749b5920be8d7dedb

[Tomás de Torquemada]

Dal sito http://www.corriere.it/

Per realizzarla necessaria una visione aerea»
La misteriosa mappa di 120 milioni di anni fa
Russia, l'università di Bashkir: scoperta inspiegabile,
l'uomo è comparso sulla Terra solo 70 mila anni fa

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2002/06_Giugno/05/mappa.shtml

[agaragar]

Originally posted by Tomás de Torquemada
Purtroppo, essendo in lingua inglese, mi ero istintivamente limitato a farlo scorrere, senza concentrare la mia attenzione..
cazzarola, ma se vengono i marziani che gli dici?

vabbè ragazzi, imparate l'italiano poi ripassate eh....

[Tomás de Torquemada]

Originally posted by agaragar

cazzarola, ma se vengono i marziani che gli dici?

vabbè ragazzi, imparate l'italiano poi ripassate eh....

Se vengono i marziani, cercheremo di intenderci a gesti... :D

Saluti.

[Tomás de Torquemada]

Dal sito http://www.edicolaweb.net

UNA MAPPA DEGLI URALI DI 120 MILIONI DI ANNI

http://www.edicolaweb.net/news_004.htm

[Fenris]

Interessantissimo! Sono contento di aver letto questo thread, perchè tra un mese partitò per un viaggio che tra le varie tappe contempla anche Ufa, non mancherò di visitare il museo archeologico!