Tibet

[agaragar]

Originally posted by Lutzianu
povero ragazzo, non riesci a vedere oltre ai confini del tuo piccolo stato....

al limite vai a cannes a maggio e alla festa della birra in ottobre.


sai chi è Ghedun Nima? è il più giovane prigioniero politico al mondo, sequestrato dai cinesi perchè riconosciuto come incarnazione del Panchen Lama, ossia colui che diventerà il Dalai Lama.



e tu, (quello che vuoi) dei miei stivali, giustifichi il massacro, la distruzione di una cultura, il sequesto di persona e lo sterminio per affermare i tuoi valori?

questa storia del tibet povero che è stata salvato dalla cina sembra una barzelletta. be allora invadiamo la cina per liberarli da comunismo!!!!!

scusate un attimo, allora voi CONDIVIDETE l'invasione dell'Iraq per salvarlo sa Saddam.. non fà una piega...

anzi, zio saddam era sicuramente peggio dei monaci tibetani, che quanto meno non usavano gas per sterminare i contadiniche non versavano la gabella.

ecco un altro analfabeta, mica lo so se vale la pena di risponderti...

la Gran Bretagna include LEGITTIMAMENTE la Scozia, se la Scozia fosse occupata dall'italia, sarebbe un'invasione...

l'irak non ci azzecca nulla con gli usa, i cinesi sono in tibet da 4000 anni, se non capisci le differenze...

la posizione del tibet è certo analoga a quella della sardegna, anzi l'italia ha meno diritti sulla sardegna di quanti ne abbia la cina in tibet,
se la sardegna si separasse dall'italia, sarebbe un progresso, se il tibet si separasse dalla Cina, sarebbe un disastro, per i tibetani, per i cinesi, e per tutto il mondo.

[Sothis]

TIBET LIBERO!!!

[Lutzianu]

Originally posted by agaragar
ecco un altro analfabeta, mica lo so se vale la pena di risponderti...

la Gran Bretagna include LEGITTIMAMENTE la Scozia, se la Scozia fosse occupata dall'italia, sarebbe un'invasione...

l'irak non ci azzecca nulla con gli usa, i cinesi sono in tibet da 4000 anni, se non capisci le differenze...

la posizione del tibet è certo analoga a quella della sardegna, anzi l'italia ha meno diritti sulla sardegna di quanti ne abbia la cina in tibet,
se la sardegna si separasse dall'italia, sarebbe un progresso, se il tibet si separasse dalla Cina, sarebbe un disastro, per i tibetani, per i cinesi, e per tutto il mondo.

grazie per l'analfabeta, detto da te è un onore.


il tuo ragionamento è veramente assurdo.

quindi secondo te la Sardegna ha più diritto a rivendicare l'indipendenza statuale del Tbet. ho capito bene ?

Il problema è che in TIbet prima dell' indipendenza dovrebbero avere un minimo di diritti. Tipo:

libertà religiosa

la cina sarà in tibet da 4000 anni ma questo non gli dà il diritto di distruggere la cultura tibetana.

a proposito di scozia:

se è per questo anche l'irlanda era inclusa "LEGITTIMAMENTE" (i cattolici non potevano accedere alla vita pubblica) nel regno unito.... e adesso è indipendente...


mai sentito parlare di Daniel O'Connell?

l'esempio degli usa non era rivolto a te.

[Lutzianu]

quei cattivucci dell 'ONU dicono questo.


si sa che all' Onu parlano cosi perchè sono tutti Buddisti di destra, e quindi contro la Cina comunista.




Sir Nigel Rodley, the Special Rapporteur on Torture's report


News Update
Tibet Bureau, Geneva
17 April, Geneva - In this update we produce the cases in Tibet covered by Sir Nigel Rodley, the Special Rapporteur on Torture of the UN Commission on Human Rights, in his report to the fifty-sixth session this year. His report also mentioned many cases in China and Eastern Turkestan.

The numbers are paragraph numbers of the report.

222. Concerning the situation in Tibet, the Special Rapporteur has received information on the following individual cases.

223. Ngawang Kyonmed, who was taking care of a shrine in the Drepung complex in Tibet, and Samdrul, both monks, were reportedly arrested in September 1998 on suspicion of having prepared a letter addressed to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, during her visit to Tibet in September 1998. The letter is believed to express concern about the detention of the Panchen Lama, Gendun Choekyi Nyima, as well as details of the May 1998 protests at Drapchi prison which were mentioned in a communication by the Special Rapporteur dated 3 September 1998 (see E/CN.4/1999/61, para. 116). Ngawang Kyonmed was allegedly beaten severely and detained at the Gutsa detention centre in Lhasa. He were reportedly transferred to a prison. An urgent appeal was sent on their behalf on 13 January 1999 by the Chairman-Rapporteur of the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention.

224. Norbu, a 17-year-old monk from Nalanda monastery, was reportedly arrested along with three fellow monks on 25 February 1995, following a police raid on the monastery. He is said to have resisted the police who wanted to search fellow monks' rooms. He was reportedly taken to Phenpo County Public Security Bureau detention centre. He was reportedly transferred on 28 February 1995 to Gutsa detention centre in Lhasa city, where he spent almost a year in incommunicado detention. He was allegedly brutally interrogated by the prison guards and accused of hiding documents on Tibet's independence. He was then denied medical treatment, despite the fact that his health was constantly deteriorating during his detention. In particular, he is said to have sustained damage to his kidneys. When he was returned home, in February 1996, he was still in a very serious condition. He allegedly could not turn his head or bend one of his legs and could not speak properly anymore. He is said to have died at home in March 1999 from injuries sustained at the time of his arrest and interrogation.

225. Tashi Tsering reportedly died in the first week of October 1999, while still hospitalized, allegedly due to the beatings he sustained at the time of his arrest. Security police officers of the People's Armed Police (PAP) reportedly beat him so badly that his hands and feet may have been broken and his arm fractured. His head was struck against the back of a vehicle and by the time he was dragged into the police van by security personnel he was unable to walk. It is thought that his head injuries contributed to his subsequent death in the Tibetan Autonomous Region police hospital, near Sera Monastery, where he had been immediately rushed. He is said to have been arrested soon after having lowered the Chinese flag in Potala Square and attempted to hoist the forbidden Tibetan national flag during the Minority Games, held in Lhasa, on 26 August 1999.

Urgent appeals and replies received

228. On 1 July 1999, the Special Rapporteur sent an urgent appeal on behalf of Ngawang Choephel, who reportedly went missing in August 1995 when he was travelling through Tibet, tape recording traditional Tibetan folk music. He had reportedly been sentenced to 18 years' imprisonment for committing espionage. On 19 May 1999, the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention declared his detention arbitrary. He was reportedly originally detained at the Nyari detention centre, in Shigatse, but has since been transferred to the Powo Tramo prison in Tramo county. His health has allegedly deteriorated since his imprisonment. In particular, since 16 August 1998 he has reportedly been vomiting blood and is suffering from tuberculosis and a gastric disease. A letter was reportedly written to the Higher People's Court in China requesting permission for him to have medical treatment, however no response was received.

229. The Government replied on 15 December 1999 that in September 1998 the Xigaze Intermediate People's Court found Ngawang Choephel guilty of spying and on charges of separatism and sentenced him to 18 years' imprisonment, including four years without political rights. The Government further replied that, on appeal, the Tibet Autonomous Region Higher People's Court upheld the guilty verdict, after a closed hearing. The Government advised that the hearing was closed because the case involved State secrets. The Government further advised that he is currently serving his sentence in Bomi prison in Tibet. In relation to medical care, the Government replied that all offenders are entitled to receive free medical care, including annual check-ups, as well as timely treatment if they become ill. The Government reported that in October 1998, Ngawang contracted bronchitis, a lung infection and hepatitis and was treated at the prison hospital for over two months. He received a check-up in January 1999 which found him to be showing signs of recovery and he is now recuperating with oral medication. The Government stated that as in the past, law enforcement authorities are providing every respect and protection of his rights.

235. On 25 August 1999, the Special Rapporteur sent an urgent appeal on behalf of Tsering Dorje, a Tibetan translator who had reportedly been detained with two foreigners, Daja Meston and Gabriel Lafitte, who were investigating the impact of a World Bank project. It is alleged that the three men were detained by Chinese State security officials in Xiangride on 15 August 1999. Gabriel Lafitte was reportedly released on 21 August, while Daja Meston was reportedly seriously injured when he jumped from the third floor while trying to escape from detention. Tsering Dorje reportedly remains in detention, although his current whereabouts are unknown. The Government replied on 7 October 1999 that Tsering Dorje had been employed by Daja Meston and Gabriel Lafitte from 11 to 14 August 1999 to enter areas in Dulan county, Qinghai province which were not open to the public, to gather material for the conduct of illegal activities and to serve as an interpreter. He was questioned by the Qinghai province State security officers on 17 August 1999 and was assigned to home surveillance in accordance with the law on 18 August 1999. The Government further responded that he had made a confession and signed a statement of repentance, after which the Qinghai State security organs lifted the surveillance on 24 August 1999. The Government informed the Special Rapporteur that his rights were fully respected and protected and that no torture or ill-treatment took place. No information was provided on the other two persons referred to in the allegation.

236. On 5 November 1999, the Special Rapporteur sent a joint urgent appeal in conjunction with the Chairman-Rapporteur of the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention on behalf of Geshe Sonam Phuntsok of Karze Dhargye Monastry, Agya Tsering and Sonam, three Tibetan monks, who had reportedly been arrested and detained on 24 October 1999 by officials from the Karze County Public Security Bureau on suspicion of involvement in political activities and contact with the exiled Tibetan Government. Their current whereabouts were unknown. In relation to this case, it was also reported that officials of the Public Security Bureau opened fire on 300 Tibetans during a peaceful demonstration demanding the release of the above-mentioned monks. At least 10 demonstrators were reportedly arrested, although their identities and the exact location of their detention were not known.

Follow-up to previously transmitted communications

237. By letter dated 24 February 1999 the Government responded to an urgent appeal sent by the Special Rapporteur on 10 December 1998, in conjunction with the Special Rapporteurs on freedom of opinion and expression, and on violence against women (see E/CN.4/1999/61, para. 126). The Government indicated that Ngawang Sangdrol was sentenced in November 1992 by the Lhasa Municipal Intermediate People's Court to three years' imprisonment, including one year with no political rights for committing actions that imperiled the security and unity of the State. The Government further replied that after she was admitted to the Tibet Autonomous Region Prison she repeatedly engaged in separatist activities for which her sentence was increased by the court three times (June 1993, June 1996 and October 1998) to a total of 15 years' imprisonment and deprivation of political rights for three years. It indicated that she had refused to submit to discipline in prison, but that her rights were being fully respected, including the right to maintain health and to report any alleged ill treatment by prison staff to the Procurator's Office or court. The Government denied that she had been subjected to any beatings or ill-treatment by prison guards or that her physical condition was deteriorating. It replied that all prisoners received free medical treatment, including annual check-ups, and were given timely care in the event of illness. The Government also replied that all female inmates at the prison were supervised by female guards, and that the claim that Buddhist nuns are subjected to sexual violations was entirely untrue and malicious. In relation to alleged violent demonstrations inside Drapchi prison in May 1998, the Government replied that no such incidents had taken place. The Government stated that there had not been a demonstration by offenders since the Tibet Autonomous Region Prison was founded.

238. Concerning Ngawang Choesom, the Government reported that there was no person named Ngawang Choesom at the Tibet Autonomous Region Prison.

Observations

239. By letter of 15 February 1999, the Government formally invited the Special Rapporteur to undertake a visit to the country in the second half of 1999 or the first half of 2000. At the time of writing, the Special Rapporteur was still awaiting confirmation of specific dates that had been under discussion with the Permanent Mission of China.

[agaragar]

Originally posted by Lutzianu
il tuo ragionamento è veramente assurdo.

quindi secondo te la Sardegna ha più diritto a rivendicare l'indipendenza statuale del Tbet. ho capito bene ?

Il problema è che in TIbet prima dell' indipendenza dovrebbero avere un minimo di diritti. Tipo:

libertà religiosa

la cina sarà in tibet da 4000 anni ma questo non gli dà il diritto di distruggere la cultura tibetana.

a proposito di scozia:

se è per questo anche l'irlanda era inclusa "LEGITTIMAMENTE" (i cattolici non potevano accedere alla vita pubblica) nel regno unito.... e adesso è indipendente...


mai sentito parlare di Daniel O'Connell?

L'irlanda aveva uno status semicoloniale, differente da quello di Scozia o Tibet,

In Tibet, dopo la rivoluzione culturale, c'è tutta la libertà religiosa in uno stato laico e non concordatario, la religione è un fatto privato, non ha rilevanza pubblica, e a nessuno gliene frega niente, altra cosa è la cospirazione.
E tieni conto che gli stessi cinesi non hanno le libertà costituzionali occidentali.

Anche troppa "libertà" religiosa secondo me, in fondo stiamo parlando di roba alla Wanna marchi, il buddismo appartiene alle nebbie del passato.

[lovecraft]

Originally posted by agaragar
L'irlanda aveva uno status semicoloniale, differente da quello di Scozia o Tibet,

In Tibet, dopo la rivoluzione culturale, c'è tutta la libertà religiosa in uno stato laico e non concordatario, la religione è un fatto privato, non ha rilevanza pubblica, e a nessuno gliene frega niente, altra cosa è la cospirazione.
E tieni conto che gli stessi cinesi non hanno le libertà costituzionali occidentali.

Anche troppa "libertà" religiosa secondo me, in fondo stiamo parlando di roba alla Wanna marchi, il buddismo appartiene alle nebbie del passato.

Il Buddismo non è certo peggiore delle tre religioni monoteiste

[lovecraft]

Originally posted by agaragar
Gli autocrati cinesi, hanno riconosciuto i diritti del popolo cinese a mangiare, istruirsi e progredire, diritti sconosciuti invece in italia...istruirsi e progredire intendo, a "mangiare" si "mangia" anche troppo...

Gli autocrati cinesi sono andati al potere vincendo una guerra contro altri autocrati, e disonesti, che gli sparavano addosso,

Gli autocrati cinesi hanno liberato il mondo dall'autocrazia sovietica e dall'incubo della guerra fredda,

La Cina come antichissimo grande stato multinazionale, sa cosa sono i diritti nazionali, non come l'italia che ha sempre misconosciuto la nazionalità sarda e riconosce le minoranze francofone e tedesche solo perchè hanno alle spalle stati molto più potenti del nostro.

Preferisco il peggiore tra i politici di una democrazia al migliore degli autocrati cinese, russo o arabo che sia.
Dall'autocrazia sovietica e dalla guerra fredda non mi risulta che ci abbiano liberato gli autocrati comunisti cinesi, i quali hanno pensato bene di diventare turbocapitalisti come i peggiori padroni delle ferriere ottocenteschi.
Gli autocrati cinesi sono responsabili della morte di milioni di cinesi, con l'aumento del loro potere il mondo diventerà un posto sempre peggiore: se sei convinto del contrario, chiedi l'annessione della Sardegna alla Cina

[Lutzianu]

Originally posted by lovecraft
Preferisco il peggiore tra i politici di una democrazia al migliore degli autocrati cinese, russo o arabo che sia.
Dall'autocrazia sovietica e dalla guerra fredda non mi risulta che ci abbiano liberato gli autocrati comunisti cinesi, i quali hanno pensato bene di diventare turbocapitalisti come i peggiori padroni delle ferriere ottocenteschi.
Gli autocrati cinesi sono responsabili della morte di milioni di cinesi, con l'aumento del loro potere il mondo diventerà un posto sempre peggiore: se sei convinto del contrario, chiedi l'annessione della Sardegna alla Cina

Siognor Osco-Umbro
il fosco agaragar non è sardo ne pare abbia intenzione di esserlo. I Sardi semmai, piuttosto che chiedere l'annesione alla Cina, preferirebbero attacarla militarmente. Anche se certi di perdere e morire almeno lo farebbero da liberi, come è nel loro spirito e nella loro più antica tradizione.

[agaragar]

Originally posted by lovecraft
Preferisco il peggiore tra i politici di una democrazia al migliore degli autocrati cinese, russo o arabo che sia.
Dall'autocrazia sovietica e dalla guerra fredda non mi risulta che ci abbiano liberato gli autocrati comunisti cinesi, i quali hanno pensato bene di diventare turbocapitalisti come i peggiori padroni delle ferriere ottocenteschi.
Gli autocrati cinesi sono responsabili della morte di milioni di cinesi, con l'aumento del loro potere il mondo diventerà un posto sempre peggiore: se sei convinto del contrario, chiedi l'annessione della Sardegna alla Cina

L'ignoranza l'è una brutta cosa.

[Lutzianu]

Originally posted by agaragar
L'ignoranza l'è una brutta cosa.

Si. Ma è meglio essere ignoranti che indottrinati come i compagni di merende e i cammmerati senza camera.