Se foste al posto di Tremonti...

[Ping Pong]

Beh, è un po' comoda come risposta. Comunque per pagarsi privatamente, nell'ordine, sicurezza (ovvero forze di polizia), sanità e istruzione, giusto per citare le più importanti, serve un gran bel gruzzolo. Per me la secessione individuale andrebbe bene come principio, dovremmo riformulare il contratto sociale.

Beh, che dovrei risponderti?

Io veramente non ho mai firmato nessun contratto sociale.
Tu?
Tra l'altro assistiamo ad una vicenda emblematica: una intera popolazione (io ero a chiomonte il 3 luglio, la solidarietà che ho visto è stata commovente) non vuole un'opera pubblica promossa dallo stato centrale, però se la deve prendere per forza.
E l'autodeterminazione?

[Phileas]

Beh, è un po' comoda come risposta. Comunque per pagarsi privatamente, nell'ordine, sicurezza (ovvero forze di polizia), sanità e istruzione, giusto per citare le più importanti, serve un gran bel gruzzolo. Per me la secessione individuale andrebbe bene come principio, dovremmo riformulare il contratto sociale.

Certo che se credi che tutta quella roba piova dal cielo ed è gratuita allora mi sa che bisogna chiamare un medico:giagia:
Molto bravo pero'

[Mario Rossi]

Ragà, torniamo IT.

La sanità non andrebbe toccata, sebbene abbiano già fatto tagli su tagli. E comunque, a quanto ho capito, lo stanno per fare di nuovo. Stanno introducendo dei ticket su varie prestazioni e sul pronto soccorso.

[Ping Pong]

Quindi il morto di fame dovrebbe affidarsi alla discrezionale benevolenza di un ricco, come nel medioevo? Tu se vedi un barbone per strada, gli dai dei soldi per curarsi, immagino.

Ti risulta che io sia paragonabile al ricco del Medioevo? L'articolo lo hai letto?
Mario Rossi>NO.

Allora:

Mutual aid, also known as fraternalism, refers to social organizations that gathered dues and paid benefits to members facing hardship. According to David Beito in From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State, there was a "great stigma" attached to accepting government aid or private charity during the late 18th and early 19th centuries.[1] Mutual aid, on the other hand, did not carry the same stigma. It was based on reciprocity: today's mutual-aid recipient could be tomorrow's donor, and vice versa.

Mutual aid was particularly popular among the poor and the working class. For instance, in New York City in 1909 40 percent of families earning less than $1,000 a year, little more than the "living wage," had members who were in mutual-aid societies.[2] Ethnicity, however, was an even greater predictor of mutual-aid membership than income. The "new immigrants," such as the Germans, Bohemians, and Russians, many of whom were Jews, participated in mutual-aid societies at approximately twice the rate of native whites and six times the rate of the Irish.[3] This may have been due to new immigrants' need for an enhanced social safety net.

The first major blow against fraternalism occurred when the American Medical Association gained control of the licensing of medical schools. In 1912, a number of state medical boards formed the Federation of State Medical Boards, which accepted the AMA's ratings of medical schools as authoritative. The AMA quickly rated many schools as "unacceptable." Consequentially, the number of medical schools in America dropped from 166 in 1904 to 81 in 1918, a 51 percent drop.[18] The increased price of medical services made it impractical for many lodges to retain the services of a doctor. Medical boards also threatened many doctors with being stripped of their licenses if they practiced lodge medicine.[19]

The next most damaging piece of legislation was the Mobile Law. The Mobile Law required that mutual aid societies show a gradual improvement in reserves. Until this time, societies had tended to keep low reserves in order to pay the maximum benefits possible to members. High reserve requirements made it difficult for societies to undercut traditional insurance companies. The Mobile Law also required a doctor's examination for all lodge members and forbade all "speculative" enterprises such as the extension of credit to members. By 1919, the Mobile Law had been enacted in 40 states.[20]

Mutual aid was hindered in other ways. Lodges were prohibited from providing coverage for children. This opened the door for commercial companies to offer industrial policies in which children's coverage was standard. The number of industrial policies rose from 1.4 million in 1900 to 7.1 million in 1920. By 1925, industrial policies surpassed the number of fraternal policies.[23] Group medical insurance also eventually became tax deductible, while private plans such as those purchased through a lodge did not.[24]

The advent of Medicare also hastened the decline of fraternal hospitals. MIT economist Amy Finkelstein estimated that Medicare drove a 28 percent increase in hospital spending between 1965 and 1970 by encouraging hospitals to adopt new medical technologies. Smaller hospitals, such as many fraternal hospitals, were not able adopt new technologies as quickly as larger hospitals and were driven out of the market, another finding supported by Finkelstein.[27]

Leggeteli i link... potreste imparare cose che non sapete e, magari, capire che l'uomo non è una bestia come le altre.

[Mario Rossi]

Certo che se credi che tutta quella roba piova dal cielo ed è gratuita allora mi sa che bisogna chiamare un medico:giagia:
Molto bravo pero'

Sono istituzioni e servizi a cui provvede lo stato, e sono pagati con le tasse di tutti. Chi se la può permettere una polizia privata? Ma va là...

[Ping Pong]

Sono istituzioni e servizi a cui provvede lo stato, e sono pagati con le tasse di tutti. Chi se la può permettere una polizia privata? Ma va là...

QUando si dice conoscenza dei processi di mercato...

[Mario Rossi]

Ti risulta che io sia paragonabile al ricco del Medioevo? L'articolo lo hai letto?
Mario Rossi>NO.

Allora:

Mutual aid, also known as fraternalism, refers to social organizations that gathered dues and paid benefits to members facing hardship. According to David Beito in From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State, there was a "great stigma" attached to accepting government aid or private charity during the late 18th and early 19th centuries.[1] Mutual aid, on the other hand, did not carry the same stigma. It was based on reciprocity: today's mutual-aid recipient could be tomorrow's donor, and vice versa.

Mutual aid was particularly popular among the poor and the working class. For instance, in New York City in 1909 40 percent of families earning less than $1,000 a year, little more than the "living wage," had members who were in mutual-aid societies.[2] Ethnicity, however, was an even greater predictor of mutual-aid membership than income. The "new immigrants," such as the Germans, Bohemians, and Russians, many of whom were Jews, participated in mutual-aid societies at approximately twice the rate of native whites and six times the rate of the Irish.[3] This may have been due to new immigrants' need for an enhanced social safety net.

The first major blow against fraternalism occurred when the American Medical Association gained control of the licensing of medical schools. In 1912, a number of state medical boards formed the Federation of State Medical Boards, which accepted the AMA's ratings of medical schools as authoritative. The AMA quickly rated many schools as "unacceptable." Consequentially, the number of medical schools in America dropped from 166 in 1904 to 81 in 1918, a 51 percent drop.[18] The increased price of medical services made it impractical for many lodges to retain the services of a doctor. Medical boards also threatened many doctors with being stripped of their licenses if they practiced lodge medicine.[19]

The next most damaging piece of legislation was the Mobile Law. The Mobile Law required that mutual aid societies show a gradual improvement in reserves. Until this time, societies had tended to keep low reserves in order to pay the maximum benefits possible to members. High reserve requirements made it difficult for societies to undercut traditional insurance companies. The Mobile Law also required a doctor's examination for all lodge members and forbade all "speculative" enterprises such as the extension of credit to members. By 1919, the Mobile Law had been enacted in 40 states.[20]

Mutual aid was hindered in other ways. Lodges were prohibited from providing coverage for children. This opened the door for commercial companies to offer industrial policies in which children's coverage was standard. The number of industrial policies rose from 1.4 million in 1900 to 7.1 million in 1920. By 1925, industrial policies surpassed the number of fraternal policies.[23] Group medical insurance also eventually became tax deductible, while private plans such as those purchased through a lodge did not.[24]

The advent of Medicare also hastened the decline of fraternal hospitals. MIT economist Amy Finkelstein estimated that Medicare drove a 28 percent increase in hospital spending between 1965 and 1970 by encouraging hospitals to adopt new medical technologies. Smaller hospitals, such as many fraternal hospitals, were not able adopt new technologies as quickly as larger hospitals and were driven out of the market, another finding supported by Finkelstein.[27]

Leggeteli i link... potreste imparare cose che non sapete e, magari, capire che l'uomo non è una bestia come le altre.

Io leggo, ma l'uomo, se non è una bestia come le altre, è perché ha capito (più o meno) che certe cose vanno scolpite nel marmo, e in alto, perché restino e valgano, nei limiti del possibile.

Visto che si citano gli USA per la sanità, come mai la speranza di vita in quel paese, che è complessivamente la prima potenza economica del mondo, è molto più bassa che in Italia?

[benjamin_linus]

La sanità non andrebbe toccata, sebbene abbiano già fatto tagli su tagli. E comunque, a quanto ho capito, lo stanno per fare di nuovo. Stanno introducendo dei ticket su varie prestazioni e sul pronto soccorso.

Per forza, è il fosso principale... :giagia:

[Mario Rossi]

QUando si dice conoscenza dei processi di mercato...

Il principio qual è, eliminiamo lo stato e lasciamo tutto al libero mercato?

[Phileas]

Sono istituzioni e servizi a cui provvede lo stato, e sono pagati con le tasse di tutti. Chi se la può permettere una polizia privata? Ma va là...

Ma la polizia e la sanità sono finanziate dai cittadini cioè lo stato non produce nulla. Lo capisci o no?