città... del lotto...

[FareFronte]

Speriamo LAX!
Ma scusate l'ignoranza, fino a qualche anno fa AZ andava a LAX diretto da MXP mi pare?! Con che aereo ci andava?? MD 11 o 747-200?

[Alitalia Fan]

Tutti e due


B 747-200B prima, MD-11 poi

[concorde]

scusate ma qualcuno ha mai detto alitalia?? io no...


ehehehehheh

[marcogiov]

Old Fashion? Gran Panorama?

[FlyIce]

In Origine postato da concorde
scusate ma qualcuno ha mai detto alitalia?? io no...

In Origine postato da FlyIce
... BKK è più da giocarci sopra con il blu che il verde
...

Dopo qualche scherzetto (peccato non potersi giocare al lotto il 340) non mi freghi più ...
... è chiara la mia autocitazione o sto diventando troppo sibillino (sarà contagioso ) ???

Un caro saluto

[AZ1774]

Concorde, avresti un mio PVT.

Ciauz

Daniele

[I-DAVE]

In Origine postato da marcogiov
Gran Panorama?

Forse vuoi dire Blue Pornorama...

DaV

[klmaddicted]

I'm sorry ma di cosa state parlando?
Riporto da fonte straniera più che competente:

The passenger mix on the LAX-MXP flight (and to a large degree on SFO-MXP) were VFR and leisure traffic. There were a few good commercial accounts in LA and there were a number of celebrities who flew to Italy a lot on AZ. Some because they liked us, some because it was nonstop. For the rag trade in LAX, it was the best of all worlds; two of the worlds top fashion centers connected by a 12 hour flight. Yes, many of the larger corporations did not select AZ as their primary carrier to Europe.

I can only speak for San Francisco, but my goal for Alitalia there was not to be number one for the corporations, it was to be a solid number two. We knew the reality of the market on the west coast; it was heavily dominated by United (more in SFO than in LAX); however, it may interest all of you to know that AZ enjoyed a fairly high passenger market share in the O&D market LAX-MXP. On SFO-MXP, we achieved a 63% market share in the SFO-MXP O&D market, which gave UA fits. Of course, they prompty put a "direct" flight on SFO-MXP (via IAD, with change of gauge of course, but who's counting?) Yes, there was a great deal of ethnic traffic going beyond MXP, especially to THR; but there were the Greeks as well as the Italians. This was true both in LAX and SFO. In the summer, the flights were absolutely jammed in both directions. However, after Labor Day, things fell off very quickly until Christmas.

However, the difference between the SFO and LAX operations was the aircraft. LAX operated with an MD-11 combi. This made a considerable difference in the operating performance of the flights. In some cases, the loads were poor, but the cargo did very well. Another aspect of the LAX flights were the Magnifica Class loads: There was very high load factors in the spring/summer/fall in Magnifica Class. This was split somewhere down the middle between Europe and beyond originating traffic and LA and west coast originating traffic. Before the SFO nonstop, we fed the traffic predominately via LAX, then via ORD and the other gateways far behind.

Additionally, we were somewhat hamstrung due to a lack of a competitive frequent flyer agreement....having CO and US as partners did great in the east, but did nothing for us in the west. Once AZ joined SkyTeam, things changed for the better. Delta had a much larger presence in LAX than in SFO, so there, the ability to leverage the SkyTeam frequent flyer program had appeal; especially to those who traveled frequently to Europe. They had the choice of AF, AZ, or DL to take them to Europe, which was a viable alternative to the Star Alliance UA/LH juggernaut. We made inroads in SFO; but fighting Mileage Plus is like a David and Goliath struggle (no pun intended).

SFO suffered from a slightly different problem: There was tremendous opportunity in the Bay Area for Alitalia, due to the large Italian community there and the large number of local Bay Area businesses that had direct ties to Italy. By the end of our second year, we had started to attract the larger corporations to consider us as their second tier carrier, both because of the relationships and preferential treatment we gave to our corporate clients. However, the flight could not make money. The problem: The 767-300. SFO-MXP falls at about 5600nm, just at the end range for the 763ER. There was not enough cargo at SFO to justify an MD-11 combi, plus they were in small supply. AZ was hot on the 767-300 as a smaller aircraft with long legs that could carry a relatively small load (205 pax) from the west coast to MXP without fuel stops. For our passengers, it was a fabulous aircraft. People that flew it loved it, because of the roominess and comfort of the seats (greater pitch). The problem: Big cargo could not be carried on the aircraft, nor could palletized cargo be carried onboard. All of that was trucked to LAX and put on the MD-11. Of course, this helped the LAX operation, but hurt us. The MD-11 in LAX never had summer weight restrictions. In SFO, we had weight penalties all the time due to the heat and the fact we could not use the 28s for departure due to Alitalia's very strict policy on one engine out procedures. If you are familiar with SFO airport and the departure profile, the 28s are the long runways. We used 1R almost 95% of the time; when we needed length, we had to take off in the opposite direction of traffic (10L), which meant huge delays and extra fuel, requiring weight restrictions.

Our growth in SFO during the first two years of the flight was phenominal, but we could never get it profitable, due to low unit revenue and high unit costs. Of course, competing for seats with the Europe point of sale was an interesting challenge as well.

Why do I mention all of these things?

The restoration of LAX service is a very large step forward for Alitalia. When AZ operated the aircraft before, it carried 30/175 plus cargo. The 777 carries 42J/248Y, or about 80 more seats per day than the MD-11. While the 777 is far more efficient than the MD-11, especially over this distance, the problem is fourfold: 1) Because AZ is only authorized for 138min ETOPS across the North Atlantic, there will be routing restrictions that force the aircraft to fly a more easterly route eastbound and westbound. This adds about 30 minutes to the flight than a straight line over the north of Canada and Greenland (which the MD-11 can do). 2) The additional 80 seats requires an average higher load factor than was traditionally achieved with the MD-11. This means that more people would have to fly AZ out of the gate with the 777. 3) Having been out of the market for three years (effectively), people's flying habits have changed and even with the 777, if people are locked into Mileage Plus or AAdvantage (which has been pointed out), it is going to take a lot of resources to move market share. This will ensure that the flight will not be profitable for at least 18-24 months minimum.

4) There is also one additional problem that affects the US point of sale: The weakness of the US dollar v the Euro. While this makes AZs operating costs slightly lower (since their base is in Euro and in the US they pay in dollars), the leisure passenger market will not materialize in 2005 to the degree that was anticipated when the flight was given the green light. When the USD passed 1.30 to the Euro (I think it is now around 1.37), the Italians started seeing red. Given Alitalia's financial situation, what was a viable risk three months ago is a very poor risk today. Even if the MD-11 were put back on LAX with a lower passenger requirement, exports out of the US will increase, but imports will decrease and that imbalance could result in a severe pull down of cargo movements (especially Italian imports to the USA). 4) Lastly, with fuel costs at an all time high, launching a new service with a dubious potential in 2005 would, IMHO, not be a wise move for AZ.

AZ is better served by solidifying its position at its existing gateways, using its 767s from Boston, Chicago and Miami, while operating the EWR-MXP/FCO and JFK-MXP/FCO services with the larger aircraft. the EWR flights would be filled up with the New Jersey and westside traffic and now with NW/CO traffic connecting, the JFK flights would be fed by Delta. In fact, all four gateways can be served in one fashion or another by the domestic SkyTeam alliance of CO/NW/DL. On the west coast, this inbound connecting traffic would not exist. All the traffic would have to come from the gateways.

So for now, you will not see an LAX-MXP nonstop. Not in 2005. Depending upon the situation in 2006, you may see service be discussed for the April schedule change, but not before. As for SFO, I personally do not believe AZ will return. If the LAX route is restored, all efforts will be needed to bring connecting traffic to that flight. Now that the west coast situation is more realistic in terms of numbers of flights, people may not object strenously to taking a flight down to LAX, especially with AS now operating flights in this market and having the code sharing/FF agreement with Delta.

Now, for those of you who have stated that Alitalia would be viewed as a "second class" carrier in the west coast markets: I have news for you...the product AZ has with its 777s is VERY good. No, they do not have bed seats. However, in Magnifica Class, the passenger space is huge, the seats are very comfortable and are good for sleep, even though the seat does not go flat.

The Economy Cabin has all 32" pitch, 18" wide seats and an on demand PTV in the back of the seat (with a telephone). The seats are arranged 3-3-3, which is the most popular configuration for the 777. I will agree that the service onboard Alitalia does not meet with most "elitest" American flyers, but I will tell you that it is not a BAD product, as some have portrayed. On Alitalia, it is important to make yourself at home. The bars are set up in the galleys and are kept stocked. Cabin attendants are required to make a service run through the cabin once each hour and on the long flights (over 10.5 hours), the third beverage service and snack were a nice touch, especially on the long flights westbound. Yes, if you treat the cabin attendants with respect and treat them like professionals, they will treat you very well.

I would welcome back Alitalia to the west coast with open arms. It would certainly bring back that sense of "style" that was lost when the west coast was pulled down. Unfortunately, we will have to wait until 2006 for this. For now, going to JFK and then to FCO or MXP is not a difficult thing, especially if you are connecting on Delta.